Ving Tsun Kung Fu

Shock! You guys know about WC/VT! OK Mord, spill the beans. How do you know Wong Shun Leung?

For those who missed it: Sturmm and I practice Ving Tsun Kung Fu, Mord asked about it and we didn't want Sturmm's intro-tread clogging up! (: (link)

Well, I know there are many variants of the different 'schools' of martial arts... based on different styles. I like Martial Arts... I always wanted to practice. *sigh* When I lived in Puerto Rico, I started practicing Isshin-ryū Karate. My Sensei, considered by many a rebel... hehehe... believes in the Tuite (locking joints) many practitioners believe is against what the founder of the style (Master Tatsuo Shimabuku) wanted to promote until his death in 1975. I studied for 7 months, then stopped because I migrated to USA. After 6 years (October of last year) I tried to start over... but the time I wanted to dedicate to it was impossible. I also so the difference...

I believe that martial arts is not a religion or spiritual path... it is pure science. The science of knowing and understanding the human body. It is about understanding your limits (strength, pain, etc) and how it can affect others. If you happen to become a better individual (spiritually) because you understand yourself... GREAT! After all, by learning about the physics of your body you start questioning your presence on the world and how you affect others at ALL levels.

But that is not the point of the Martial Arts. It would be the same as saying that you become a member of any religion (be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc) because it will make you physically fit. Religions are about a spiritual journey... if you happen to learn that to take care of your inner self, you have to take care of your body... GREAT!

Anyhow... in my readings, I also came along Kung Fu and its many styles. Sure, Shaolin is the pretty boy... famous for its roots, imitation of animals (ubber cool!) and movies and such. No disrespect... but to me (and this is from a VERY ignorant point of view, mind you) Ving Tsun style has a more 'scientific' approach... and Master Wong Shun Leung is very high on the 'scientists' who researched the art. I would LOVE to study, learn the science and corporal mechanics... locks, holds, pressure points, stances. What I find particularly striking is that Master Wong Shun Leung had the BALLS to question everything... and see reason behind things, and implement the knowledge of the modern era to traditional techniques. I'm all in favor for tradition (worked for 10,000 years... why mess with it!) but modern times ALSO bring something (sport medicine allows a further internalization and rationalization of what makes a person tick!)

To me (again... personal view), the important part is not the fighting. Hell, I rather kick you in the groin and run... to me is about the intellectual journey. Like when I learned that you can hold an egg in each hand, and escape someone holding you by the writs by just twisting your hands while you move them up... all without breaking the eggs! Or how the Naihanchi Kata is seem by many 'experts' as an idiotic dance (really!?!) and by 'rebels' as a powerful Tuite combination.

I have NEVER been interested in the Kumi te (fighting)... as I see it degenerates in who can punch or kick the fastest (my vote and money is ALWAYS on the Kangoroo!!!) and more interested in the Bun kai (application) as I get to study, understand and visualize the origin, reasoning and application of a particular Kata (formal exercise).

When I return to study (once the little one is at least 6 (she is 3 now) the I will look for a new school... someone that deserves me calling him/her Sensei (teacher). I need someone who is not afraid to teach and be questioned... what, why, how... someone that is not restricted to explain everything. Sure... may take me 25 years to move from one belt to another... once I return it will be for the long haul.

Personally, I'm jealous that Arachas can travel this road and learn Ving Tsun Kung Fu AND that he has such a good relationship with his Sensei (Major Sturmm) that he can drag him to our demented level and play !!! HA!


NOW... my questions... how EXACTLY are the teachings and observations of Master Wong Shun Leung different? I mean... what did he emphasize? How? Why? hehehehe...

I'll let the specifics of Sifu (Chinese for Sensei!) Wong's teachings to Sturmm. He's actually trained with the guy!

What I do know is that Ving Tsun is just about what seem to dislike, haha! For us, fighting is the main reason to do this. Kicking someone in the groin and running is a very good tactic for surviving a fight (provided the person was threatening you, of course). Ving Tsun is very practical. It is exactly about who kicks and punches the fastest! Indeed, we don't practice holds or locks at all.

That said, there are a lot of benefits that come with practicing a martial art. Sturmm runs a part of his business on those benefits: respect for each other, learning to deal with stress in tense situations, being able to keep an overview of the situation. In my personal life I've grown to be more confident and strong while I study (and occasionally teach) VT.

Btw, I'm happy to share about what we do and if there's others doing other cool stuff (such as holds and locks!), I would love to hear about it and share. But I'd like to emphasize I don't care much for a 'what's the better martial art' discussion. There is no best martial art. (:

Arachas wrote:

I'll let the specifics of Sifu (Chinese for Sensei!) Wong's teachings to Sturmm. He's actually trained with the guy!

REALLY?!?! AWESOME!!! Can't wait...

Arachas wrote:

What I do know is that Ving Tsun is just about what seem to dislike, haha! For us, fighting is the main reason to do this. Kicking someone in the groin and running is a very good tactic for surviving a fight (provided the person was threatening you, of course). Ving Tsun is very practical. It is exactly about who kicks and punches the fastest! Indeed, we don't practice holds or locks at all.

Don't get me wrong... I do not abhor or hate the fighting. It is an essential part of what is being done. What I HATE is when you see people 'practicing' martial arts so they can win in tournaments... they go like kangaroos to the mat, and there is no technique involved. When I see Kumi te for practitioners of Aikido... NICE! I don't mean demonstrations, but competitive fighting. You also see it in Judo.... furious and fast, but it is all about techniques. I have seen it in Muay Thai (not on the 'professional arena' but on the more traditional encounters). When I see modern Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) I see power and speed... few locks and counter moves... but it all can be distilled into short boxing spar, then grappling and finally some ground work. Even in my amateur eyes, I always ask... "Why is this guy having his open hand? Worse, why is not the other guy grab the incoming punch, redirect it so it keeps moving forward (taking the attacker off his feet while the defender becomes a smaller target), use the momentum forward to twist the arm in a lock and knee the fuck out of the guy's ribs?" This was done to me (in a demonstration) with a slight knee touch... WOW!

I do not mine the violent part... is the nature of the beast. But there is a difference between seeing two kids playing to be in a sword-fight with sticks than seeing a pair of experienced opponents with Butterfly Swords trying to draw first blood. When you practice with the muk yan jong (wooden dummy... I had to look for how this thing was properly called... see? I'm learning!)... do you just do the exercise and when you fight throw punches like a drunken sailor? If you are serious... I imagine you do not. So, if I go to a tournament to watch you... I do not expect to see a bunch of 'drunken sailors' duke it out (without any broken bottles is no fun...) but real fighters with techniques. Sure... fast as hell... but techniques.

I do NOT like only hold & lock techniques... I mean, if I'm idiotic enough to TRY and slap you and you block it and then counter-punch, you missed ONE movement to kick my ass. Not that I advocate people kicking my ass, but rather than blocking, you could have intercepted my slap, push my fingers back and down (which would force an involuntary jerking reaction back and put my on my knees) and then punch me (like I deserve) to a better sleep (unconsciousness.) When I see this, I see a person who understands the human body, knows techniques on manipulation, is quick as lighting (mentally AND physically) and terrifyingly powerful... as well as an idiot who deserved to be unconscious!

Arachas wrote:

That said, there are a lot of benefits that come with practicing a martial art. Sturmm runs a part of his business on those benefits: respect for each other, learning to deal with stress in tense situations, being able to keep an overview of the situation. In my personal life I've grown to be more confident and strong while I study (and occasionally teach) VT.

I agree 100%. They come with the practice of Martial Arts, but are not the fundamental part of it. Hard to explain... If you are thirsty, you drink water to hydrate yourself... that your mouth and throat gets moist is an added (and welcomed) bonus. As you probably know, under the right conditions, you need 1 pound to break a thumb. This makes the 'technical' questions... What are the right conditions? How much push or pull is 1 pound? How does it feel? Can the pain sensors become active with less than 1 pound? Can you train yourself to recognize the pain as an 'alarm' that tells you, to take care of your thumb or are you at the mercy of instincts and become crippled by the pain? Once you master this... can you combine it? Can you make the opponent move against his will... so you gain further advantages?

As you learn your body limitations, and re-define them... you experience something... you understand that you can so MORE. Then you see your mates and understand that they too are traveling this path of... enlightenment. Then you see your teacher and understand that while he is still traveling this path, he has gone a LONG way. You can only feel respect for such individuals. You eventually learn that pain are 'larms' to let you know something is happening (so you avoid it) and that daily tense situations can be overcome with patience, practice and action (rather than passive reaction). You learn to be patience with others... just like you do in the Dojo with the newbies... ALL OF THIS is a welcomed (and natural) bonus. But the purpose of the study is to learn how to understand body mechanics and how to kick ass. Personally, when I see someone who claims that a particular martial art is about just becoming a better individual spiritually, my response is always... "Go work for disable children." Heheheh...

Arachas wrote:

Btw, I'm happy to share about what we do and if there's others doing other cool stuff (such as holds and locks!), I would love to hear about it and share. But I'd like to emphasize I don't care much for a 'what's the better martial art' discussion. There is no best martial art. (:

VERY true. Not any particular art is better, they are just different. Sure, certain things can be better in one than in another... but that is part of the journey. To LEARN and exchange ideas.



So... more questions.... how is the ranking? Not that I see 'belts' as trophies to be taken and collected, but to me they were serious honors to be earned. How long does it takes to earn a rank? What is a typical practice / class like?

We don't use a lot of ranks. The general idea is that hierarchy is not that important - we all learn and train together, beginner and advanced students alike. There are no seperate classes, either.

We do have four grades, which come with certificates. You receive these as you progress, when your trainer has seen you train at a certain level for an extended amount of time. There are no exams.

The first is 'junior student', commonly granted after about a year of training. This grade is generally used to encourage new students. The second is 'senior student'. This one is a little more serious, generally granted somewhere between 3-5 years of training (depending on the individual's level - some just progress faster than others). Both these 'student' ranks have a corresponding logo displayed in red (the banner you see displayed on the front page of the website).

After this comes 'assistant trainer' at about 8-10 years (again, depending on the individual). These guys carry a white logo and are generally capable of running classes of their own and filling in for their teachers.

Finally there's 'trainer', wearing yellow logo's. These are the guys who've run their own school for over a year, or are recognized to have a level equal to that of the other trainers.

In practice, however, we don't care much for these 'ranks'. They are a fine way to recognize a person's growth and they are something to be proud of. But during training it's kinda 'meh, let's just train', if you know what I mean.

Any more questions, keep 'em coming. (:

Interesting thread, love all the info. Educational and entertaining

COOL! I like a system in which everyone trains together! I think that it helps the more experienced students to fine tune basic skills, as they help the noobs and see their errors (form, stand, function, etc) and the they correct themselves. Also, you learn to appreciate your teacher... "Was I this stubborn? It is a miracle I'm not eating through a straw..." HAHA!

I personally like belts as achievements, but not as ranks. I think is better to earn them, and for fellow students to see them as marks of personal achievements rather than a 'chain of command'. I applaud your description... seems like you have a great place to practice.

Question... how do you call the school/academy/institution? A Dojo? How long have you been practicing? How did you started?