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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:22 pm

There has been some discussion about how orks are doing later in a campaign. They seem a little hampered by lack of shooting as their opponents' shooting improves. What can we do about it?

Us orks gotta stick together and come up with cunnin' planz to deal with the 'umies.

Post your ideas here on:
-survivable officers that can dish out the 'urt
-how to get the boyz into combat
-is hiding the only way
-where to deploy the kommandos
-is the Weirdboy effective? Is the grot battery effective?
-trash kanz?
-powa suits?
-how should we equip the boyz?
-who to shoot first


I am hoping that we can share some tactics and strategies here. This is not the place to complain about balance of items (that is the suggestion forum). This is a thread to share what works for us and the best ways to use what we've got.

I am not one for powergaming, but just want to learn some new ways to get the most from my boys.

Post away!
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:16 am

Excellent post! I will join you (full force) in couple days!

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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:26 am

I'm building a new ork squad at the minute - so I will be interested to hear what you come up with. I doubt my squad will be in any way competitive (why change the habit of a lifetime!), but it should be fun. I have this idea of kitting the Sneaky boss out as some kind of 'sniper' to take out the hard targets using IG weaponry - it probably won't work - but I like the new model I made.

Great idea.
Cheers Laney Very Happy
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edward



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:41 pm

i'm buliding a squad....very very WIP so i look forward to hearing any advice
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DoZer



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:03 pm

Although I have yet to play with an Ork squad, I do have numerous experience playing against them, as well as helping in designing a small portion of them. We also sit after games and remark about the Pros and Cons on strategy employed during the games.

Survivable officers that can dish out the 'urt:
All your Officers can survive, especially in this game. As I like to say, Toughness is KING. That is your advantage, and as such make the most of it. Screen your brutal CC Officers with loads of Boyz, keep lowly gretchins at hand for your Nob to throw in front of oncoming fire. Your sneaky boss, surrounded by Kommandos is an excellent force multiplier, load him with human gear, and watch the fireworks. Your weird boy......although initially seems to be hamper, has some pretty effective powers. Lil Zap, although outwardly seems weak, has a good range compared to other Ork weaponry, and has the all important thing RENDING. Also look at the power 'Ere We Go. Need that boost in Hand-to-hand? This is it. All Orks within 12" ignore fear tests, AND have first strike until the beginning of your next turn. Small change, but yet crucial after your initial charge, as your opponent will rush in his units into hand to hand to offset your ability to strike back. Both of these powers offer a 41.67% to get off, and that statistic will only go up as your Ld increases on advancement rolls. Add the sill Warphead, and the possibilty increases even further.

How to get the boyz into combat:
One word..... RUN. The biggest benifit to an Ork mob is your toughness. Run as fast as you can, get into close combat, and SMASH THOSE
PUNY HUMIES TO PIECES. Huge cover, and make sure you have some gretchins out in front, so per targeting rules they must shoot them first. That will at least give you a turn or two that they cannot target your Boyz.

Where to deploy the kommandos: Put them into a position so as to harrass your opponent, but not so far away that your own Mob cannot support them if threatened. Try and keep your Sneaky Boss around them, so as to have an officer close by as a force multiplier. Most important, don't leave them flapping in the wind, otherwise your going to be replacing a lot of them.


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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:32 pm

Thanks for the start.

What human gear would you recommend for the Sneaky Boss?

What do you mean for the officers being force multipliers?
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edward



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Location : Palmerston North, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:21 pm

i like the idea of a hellgun/pistol for a sneaky boss

fire power AND range
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Chuchosky



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:21 am

Ive only been playing orks for 9 scenarios so im not a "master".

Ill try to explain my tactics

I usually fight against IG, he have 4 officers (BS 4 or 5) with bolter, 1 officer with plasma gun (BS 4) and 1 Hth sargeant. Recruits, he have 2 stubs guns (bs 4) and 4 recruits with lass-autogun (bs 5, 5, 4 and 3). He have skills for shooting and low no weapon equip, he usually TR when i finally engage in HtH.


Against this weaponry you CANT run, his bolters and his hevay stubber with high BS can take most of your units easily. Furthermore if he is in high ground....

What i do now??

My komandos have only one mission ... trying to avoid the enemy to take high grounds, by taking these places first or by shooting their best units that try to reach high ground. Yes, your komandos will be under heavy fire .... but is their work .... You need a hevaly armourer + lucky charm snakey boss, better if he have T5 (as mine). And if needed hide them, some times only beeing in a good place make problems to the enemy. Yor sneaky need: A bolter with some optics (red dot?? ) or, 2 kustom shootas and gunfighter (if not move 4 shoots!!!! ), thats will be enought to be a problem for the IG captain.


Trash kan: Flamer and armour .... if it work correctly, must be in front of your units, taking all the fire if possible, is very hard, and can take a lot of fire without problems, many times the enemy in high ground will shoot it too. BUT, be carefull, is expensive.... Another thing .... NEVER take in LOS and range of the plasma .... only if you are ready to charge or burn it.... (the plasma will kill the trash kan esaily)

If the trash kan dont work??

1.- Grots in the front??, no .... they are easy to take down... the enemy will shoot them down with low str weapons (lasguns) and latter will shoot your good units with the "havey" weapons ...

2.- Your boyz in the front line?? I think no .... at the start of the campaign they can take a lot of shoots, but now, with an enemy with high BS and St 4 weapons, they are quite easy to take down ... I think they must be in the 1st line only if you are in range of the plasma gun....

3.- Your officers?? YES ... You need high T to take St4 weapons ... your officers could have it, and perhaps some wounds. You must buy armour and lucky charm, and if possible hard skin skill, this will give you 2 rolls of 456 to avoid damage, and this only when the enemy wound you.... They can stand (more or less) st4 and st5 weapons ... of course is a risk and you can lost some of your officers, but have you ever seen an ork nobb hidding behind a gretchin?? and if you reach the enemy, you will have all your boyzs ready (and perhaps a couple of officers down) but to hit in HtH combat there isnt much difference betwen an ork boy and a Ard boy.... Allways you need a grot with your boss for the 456 save.


Of course, try to be most time out of LOS using scenography as cover, and if you are in LOS , walk and hide!!!!!!, if he cant see you he cant kill you Idea (isnt very orky, but needed). Get some flamers to clean the place before the finall charge, is lovely charge when smealing human burned flesh Flamethrower



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tendi



Posts : 187
Join date : 2010-07-11

PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:23 pm

Mid game orks from my experience:

First: Meta - my usual opponents are:
*scorpion eldars - high armor, assault/pistol firearms with s4 ap5, chainswords
*rush kroots - high number of models, chainswords [s5 attacks in charge]

Second: - my approach to squad:
* grots - not using - to fragile, free exp for enemy, zero combat capabilities
*kan - not using - unpredictable, only t4, easy to kill
*commandos - not using - lack of range weapons worth considering, take place of burnaboyz
*weirdboy - if possible replaced by promoted officers - unpredictable, kept only for exploration and sporadic long range psi shooting, to pricey to normalize: must wait for Ld, skill - waphead, grot battery

*nob/ard boyz - armor to max + hard skin + lucky charm + if possible iron jaw. kustom blastas + clubs, nob with claw for fear factor. officer who develop t5 w3 start acting as forward bullet magnet to minimalise shield recruits looses.

*sneaky boss - used in shooty variant with kustom blasta, bolter with telescopic sigh + skills for climbing, jumping, falling, armor like ard boyz

*painboy - must have - club and keeping in 3rd line, assaulting only knocked enemy

*burnaboyz - main unit - maxed to 3, fear factor, no rarity flamer, prevent enemy multiple charges, nice for autohiting enemy one flor higher with no cover saves, if promoted more place for next burnaboyz and more flamers on table. unless promoted unit considered expendable and in need used to block, charge, intercept enemy

*ork boyz - shield unit equipped only with club, if promoted used to high risk officer grabs if case of skill -> weapon training - flamer

strategy:
move mostly by running from cover to cover with boyz as priority targets for enemy. flamers in 2nd line with mass template fear factor [own boy in cc is not a factor to not multiply burn him with his enemy].

officers in 2nd line with burnas ready to counter charge or kustom blasta enemys.

if bullet magnet officer present he leads spearhead to take as much fire as possible on himself leaving other orks clear pass.

if possible charge with 2 models. chain charge strategy. assaulters need only to stun/knock enemy and charge another target and if posible by safe from enemy shooting lock in combat. lying enemy should by charge by lesser officers and recruits to wave go on.

never forget how good yours k blastas are with assault rule and bs3. its sometimes safer to shoot with officers in link with your recruits' charge instead of sending your pricey and equipped officer to die from enemy cc specialist.

mass flamers are win. even if weak against armor they are great against cover and for scoring multiple hits from shooting. not something enemy expect from orks. great psychology factor. plus they are cheep and easy to replace.

when attacking enemy don't give him possibility to rout after minor cheep recruits looses. so you want to bypass them with stun being perfect result to leave them for later. block his meat with your boyz and strike with your assaulters on enemy officers, weapon specialist, other pricey models, only then double combats with his meat [sending painboy, wyrdboy, burnaboyz, whatever left] to cripple him utterly to force him to think about must of wining scenario for bigger income.

sneaky boss in all that is another psychology factor with long treat range and priority bypass from elevated position, 30" bolter is not something enemy can ignore.


all for now.
cheers. :-)
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Chuchosky



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:43 pm

tendi wrote:

*kan - not using - unpredictable, only t4, easy to kill

Kan have +1 T as a big unit, so usually have T5, 3 wounds and can have a 4+ save
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tendi



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:56 am

Chuchosky wrote:
tendi wrote:

*kan - not using - unpredictable, only t4, easy to kill

Kan have +1 T as a big unit, so usually have T5, 3 wounds and can have a 4+ save

Only against shooting. In cc its t4 nothing more. Apart from this kan can not run so slow you down, is easy to avoid, can not shoot big shoota after move [it probably is addressed in 6.0 but for now it can't] to mean anything in cc need saw [not for strength but number of attacks] and with plates, saw and burna its quite a credit sink, slow one ;-)
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Chuchosky



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:26 am

I use it with armour plating and flamer to take all the enemy fire (if work correctly LOL ) in first line (my orks usually walk and hide, so 5" is enough to be in first line). Is T5, Sv 4+ and 3 W is really hard against lasguns and bolters!!!.

When arrive to flamer range it clean enemy lines with my burnaboyz and the others orks charge!!!!. I dont use it to HtH combat.
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tendi



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:54 am

If You dont equip it with saw it is strange that Your enemy dont go for a kill. As we speak of mid campaign stage power weapons, fists/claws, plasmas should be available. Hell, t4 [in cc] model with 1 attack even with 4+ save is not to hard for meat recruits with clubs [remember that large/small rules dont apply in close combat, only against shooting] and loosing 120 credits worth kan would be a harm. It would be priority target for me ^^

But of course strategy must be chosen to enemy and personal likes. I prefer run for cover strategy with minor shooting and hiding use til distance of squads is about 15" all for ground denial and reducing number of long range shooting turns for my opponent.

Then i switch to hide/shoot/prepare charge mode. No mad running in enemy rapid fire range to take unnecessary casualties and then act as the battle flow.
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:58 pm

Quote :
He have skills for shooting and low no weapon equip, he usually TR when i finally engage in HtH.

@ Chuchosky: Is your opponent down to 25% of his forces OOA before he tactical retreats (he must be to qualify for a tactical retreat)? Just curious

Cheers Laney cheers
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:10 pm

Tell your friend that I said he should grow some cojones and stay! Just Kidding

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:08 am

Thanks for the great discussions so far everyone.

The new version of the TLRB, 6.0, has a few small changes in store for our beloved orkys. Lets discuss how these changes may affect our squads and how we can use some of these changes to affect our strategy.

Things that jumped out at me:
-the chain choppa gives officers a great close combat weapon option. Very orky.
-the cost of ork guns seems to have gone up. I was thinking that a blasta and choppa combination on the boyz could be pretty effective.
-the new deepstrike skill on the sneaky boss could be pretty fun to use
-PEA SHOOTER! A great addition for the orks. Unreliable, but can have moderate BS. Gives the orks a long range option. I really like that addition. Gives the orks a bit more of a long range shooting option.
-the burna and kommando special rule may mean that more warbands have exclusively one or the other
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Chuchosky



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:45 am

I agree with you,

- New officers choppas are good options, love it.
- Guns??, i think a recruit Max BS 2, cant pay 22 for a blasta when most times will be runing or hiding, and the few times they shoot, they miss ;-). Guns are only for officers and komandos (now we cant start with kustom blastas , sniff)
- Pea shooter, great!!, a bit dangerous for the grot, but some long range fire power :-)
- Where are the changes in trash kan?? i only find that is 5 cr cheaper, but dont find anything else. Now whith heavy stubber st4 and 2-4 shoots, they arent as stronger as they was.
- Burnas-komandos :-(, we have a problem if we have both of our bet units in the game, i think ill use burnas.
- Where are our helmets??? ;-)
- Still think that clubs are to cheap (only 5 cr) and axe/chopas to expensive (15 cr) only for a -1 to armour save (most troops havent got armour) 5-10 or 10-15 i think is better. I think most people will continue using clubs instead of choppas.
- Weirdboy, i dont like weirdboys in general, so i dont use it, still thinking that a low level Mek fit better than a weirdboy as ork officer :-).

Tactics??
Be more carefull, advance and hide, since the first game a IG squad can have 2 heavy stubber st 4, if they fire you, you are in problems. So now, dont run if LOS, allwais walking and hidding until charge range ;-), then, burn them and charge with all you have. Use the grots as low cost snipers trying to take down enemy heavy weapons
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:20 am

On the helmets: Ead Buckets is the new ork helmet (anti stun can be gain through 'ard head skill)
Choppa: that -1 to armour save will come into its own later in the campaign when troops (especially officers) have armour
Guns are expensive - but orks won't tend to shoot much anyway (they just aren't a shooty force)
Burnas/Kommandos: most people favour one or the other anyway (the new sneaky boss rule makes it kommandos for me)

I'm probably going to revise my squad to go choppa first for recruits and get blastas/kustom blastas when I get the cash.

Laney
cheers

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:44 pm

Well Narcissus, as you are so observant (I mean it as a great compliment... THANKS for noticeing the stuff!) let me a peek on the reasoning why.

-the chain choppa gives officers a great close combat weapon option. Very orky.
- New officers choppas are good options, love it.
Yes. From the beginning we wanted to make a chain axe, but Dozer pointed out (correctly, as always) that such weapon would place the Khorne Berserkers in a weird position. Without a frame of reference, we decided to sacrifice the Orks. After Dozer designed with me the Chainaxe to a proper Khorne standard (lots of blood was involved!) we... sorry... forgot about the Orks! When you, Chuchosky, tendi and the rest of the Ork Fan-Boyz brought the issue of Orks not being able to grow, I remember the Ork version of the Chain Axe. We (the Staff) started to talk about it right away and I took the Chain Axe for a spin & twist. It was Laney who put the final nails on that coffin... and the Chain Choppa was born! Compared to a Chain Axe, is worse... but compared to a Choppa (even the new fixed version) is better.

The idea is that Orks could start with clubs, then move to Choppas... then the 'strong' ones move to Chain Choppas and the BEST of them move to the Big Choppa!


-the cost of ork guns seems to have gone up. I was thinking that a blasta and choppa combination on the boyz could be pretty effective.
- Guns??, i think a recruit Max BS 2, cant pay 22 for a blasta when most times will be runing or hiding, and the few times they shoot, they miss ;-). Guns are only for officers and komandos (now we cant start with kustom blastas , sniff)
ALL the economy of Death Squads got slightly twisted. Lots of weapons went up in price a few credits, while other (high end items) came down. It would promote the evolution of Squads. Players would be more willing to 'trade-up' as the campaign advances. You are right... the Blasta & Choppa combo was the design standard for Orks, just like Lasgun and Sword should be for IG. The initial Orks (rookies) could start with clubs and no dakka and then 'graduate' to the standard. Below some more info...


-the new deepstrike skill on the sneaky boss could be pretty fun to use
Yes... hehehe... he could DeepStrike with the Ork Skill... Da Cunnin'. We want to test the rules (they seem fine) and then introduce skills or wargear that could allow Deepstrike. Right now, the only way to Deepstrike is via Scenario rules. Enjoy it and test it!


-PEA SHOOTER! A great addition for the orks. Unreliable, but can have moderate BS. Gives the orks a long range option. I really like that addition. Gives the orks a bit more of a long range shooting option.
- Pea shooter, great!!, a bit dangerous for the grot, but some long range fire power :-)
YES! That was Laney's idea... I laughed when he suggested it. I just made the name. The idea is exactly what you suggested... increasing the tactical value of Gretchins (lots of requests for that) WITHOUT messing with their stats and fluff (design requirements.)


-the burna and kommando special rule may mean that more warbands have exclusively one or the other
- Burnas-komandos :-(, we have a problem if we have both of our bet units in the game, i think ill use burnas.
This rule has ALWAYS been there, we just made it clearer. The fix came from Arachas and Laney, who managed to verbalize the junk I wrote before. I have heard other saying exactly the opposite, preferring Kommandoz over Burna Boyz. THAT is exactly the point... no two players should have identical Squads. Wink


- Where are our helmets??? ;-)
The 'ead Bucket! Just like Laney said, it allows for cheaper items and the Stun protection can be acquired through a skill... which in the past put the Orks on Cheese level.


- Still think that clubs are to cheap (only 5 cr) and axe/chopas to expensive (15 cr) only for a -1 to armour save (most troops havent got armour) 5-10 or 10-15 i think is better. I think most people will continue using clubs instead of choppas.
Here is the Ninja AT the initial campaign, Armor is rare. Choppas are an 'overkill'... completely unnecessary. A waste of money. Now, as campaign moves along and Armor becomes a 'problem', the Orks would benefit from the new Choppas and later from the Chain Choppa. Also, Orks can now learn to Parry... Wink



- Where are the changes in trash kan?? i only find that is 5 cr cheaper, but dont find anything else. Now whith heavy stubber st4 and 2-4 shoots, they arent as stronger as they was.
The Trash-Kan has been simplified. The rules before were convoluted and the unit was hard to play as intended. Consireder now that the Trash-Kan can move and shoot without penalty AND does not need a Skill... you start with a powerful Mek.


- Weirdboy, i dont like weirdboys in general, so i dont use it, still thinking that a low level Mek fit better than a weirdboy as ork officer :-).
A low level Mek... like a Trash-Kan? Just Kidding Wirdboyz allow for shooting normalization that Orks so desperately need. Take 'em for a spin!





HERE IS A KICKER.

Not now, and NOT anytime soon... AFTER the Adeptus Arbites and the Space Marine Scouts are released, we MAY play with the concept of creating Ork Clanz. Just like the Imperial Guard's Regional Platoons, Ork players could take a Clan and have benefits or access to special skills and items. Maybe some 'sneaky' Clanz would allow for Deepstrike and other Clanz would have better Dakka. AGAIN... not anytime soon! We need to keep the eye on the prize, and release MORE Squads before adding to existing ones that work. There is a nice future for our Green Menace!

_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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PostSubject: Re: Mid-campaign ork tactics   Today at 2:38 am

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