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 Give me your wisdom...

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Red Kaiser



Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-02-01
Location : England

PostSubject: Give me your wisdom...   Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:04 pm

I've only played a few skirmish games in the past under various systems so I need any advice you can give with list construction. For example do you find it helps to focus on a certain apsect or to have a team of all rounders, a wave of fodder of a small group of elite guys.

I want to make teams with campaigns in mind (for that is how this type of game should be played... most of the time) and while I have ideas with where I might want to go later one once I've had a chance to get more wargear and don't have any problems with themes I find the armoury pretty restrictive and this makes me take 'loads' of guys. Can you save money and have a smaller warband which would then allow you to afford better wargear when you come across it or would this put you at too big a disadvantage at the start of a campaign?

For example I made a cool nurgle warband that was pretty small with a Chaos Space Marine armed with A Manreaper... then I figured out that Manreapers are rare and so you have to find them XD. (Must play a campaign where I get a manreaper now... the model must look awesome!)

I've made other lists where I've had people with no additional equipment, have I gone to far in the other direction?

While the forces might all be well balanced are any of them good for beginners? Also can you suggest what basic style of force is better for an army. For example would a CC ork army be stronger than a shooting based one? Orks are CC beasts but ork shooting works really well in 40k as long as people don't have heavy armour Just Kidding

I will be making a few teams to start so if you have a few good beginners forces (if such things exist) to suggest go for it. I can most likely do Ork, Kroot, Eldar and Guard without needing to get any more stuff. I might even be able to do some of the others so feel free to suggest anything. Oh and has anyone started on a Alpha or Beta version of a Genestealer cult... because I have about 60 genestealers in bits unpainted that I've been given over time or had in starter boxes Just Kidding
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tendi



Posts : 187
Join date : 2010-07-11

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:28 pm

So for my perspective:

1.always take all available officers for campaign play, income, exploration, rarity rolls, you will need them

2. I'm scaven minded, life is cheap, bodes over bullets, and so on....

So with pricey squad i would go for 11-12 models, in cheaper 14-15 [numbers are taken with income in mind]

Now why lot of bodes?
*You can outmaneuver enemy
*when you lose model is one per 15 no 1 per 7, it hurt less
*so you can sacrifice some models for tactic purposes with less harm to squad
*you want 6th officer asap so more recruits better chance
*imagine your 7 models being shoot by 14 models with autoguns: 2 shoots per your model on long range, 4! on rapid fire range.... your 7 can by badass but math is merciless

3.recruits equipment
*if squad has lasguns/autoguns available for recruits from start [no rarity] they are you will need, take cheapest 24" rapid fire weapons for everyone rest credits go on officers
*if not but have decent pistol available [s4 would be perfect] go with pistols instead
*if not go cheap with cc weapons. CHEAP. 2 clubs or knife and club
*or nothing for models kept always at back [ie medic] or meat shields

3. saving or buying
*you can only save anything if bought all available officers and armed all models with basic weapon, but it's not a good idea
*if there is cash in your pocket you have less squad members and enemy have better equipment.
*there is no single item you will not be able to buy if victorious so win no save
*when starting squad you want to buy as many as possible rarity 1-5 items for your officers. Why? Because later they will cost you rarity roll and block buying more fancy items. So helmets, armors, targeters, some better weapons and so on. You can always pass this items to recruits after first battle

4. medic
*if your squad have one buy him, if not buy healthcare professional from hired guns
*keep him safe - enemy should never see him and forget him all the time
*don't equip medic, he will never see real action


all so far. hope it will help
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm

Tendi has suggested some great points for a starting squad.

On Point 1: The traditional thinking on this is get as many officers as you can (makes sense). I queried this and subsequently found out that if you structure your squad right you can be just as successful with a low officer squad. A max officer squad will have the advantage of exploration in the early stage (but will be relatively low on recruits - or if not then poorly equipped), the min officer squad will be poor at exploration to begin with, but can quickly gain ground on the max officers squad. Example:

Min officers for an IG squad = 2 (Captain and Sergeant), then buy as many recruits as you can, placing them IN SEPARATE RECRUIT GROUPS (so they all roll advancements on their own) (don't forget the medic and HWS - if you can afford them). All kitted out with basic weaponry (though I would take advantage of the Captain special rule) e.g. autoguns. Quite a few will gain the Lads Got Talent early and you can create customised officers on the cheap (and starting out with low EXP means they advance quickly). This will build your officer corps fast. First couple of games will be relatively low income (though not as low as you might think) and then your recruits will turn into officers and the squad (in theory) will have more members and the same number of officers (Risky - but you don't have to max on officers).

I modelled this with a cadian squad with max officers and a cadian squad with min officers (as a rough trial). Income for the min officers was better overall by game 5 and they had more squad members.

Either way - kitting out your forces heavily in advance is generally a bad idea!

Point 2: Lots of bodies - always good (but I like a bit of nice kit/specialists to start)

Point 3: Totally agree on the buying (never save unless you absolutely have to). But you only get 1 ranged shot and 2 in 12" with an autogun (principle still applies though).

Point 4: Totally agree

Don't buy lasguns at recruitment if you have autoguns available get them instead(I learnt that from DoZer!)

The squads are designed to play as the fluff intended so orks - think cc (they can't hit a barn door), eldar, fast and deadly - but fragile, IG are the good all rounders (but the regional platoons add great depth). You aren't required to play them this way - but you will be rewarded if you do!

There are quite a few good squad lists on the forum which should give you a few ideas.

Cheers Laney
Very Happy

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Arachas



Posts : 1880
Join date : 2010-08-15
Age : 31
Location : Secret Volcano Lair in The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:12 am

Note that Mord has a different philosophy on medics: his are part of the team and so fight along with the rest of the squad. In defense of this point of view: last game one of my Aspiring Champions was capped with a massive critical by Prius' medic... armed with a pistol. So he CAN be dangerous, hehe...

But mostly us normal people keep the medics back... the re-roll is just too valuable to lose.

Oh, and take flamer if you can. That is, if you play in heavily packed tables like we do. Negating cover saves is ACE!

_________________
The one who changes Avatars, Usernames and Squads more than Lady Gaga changes costumes

Avatar art by HeavyMetalHanzo. Used with express permission.
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Mordheimer



Posts : 9756
Join date : 2009-07-12
Age : 43
Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:45 pm

Some time ago somehow I made a record-long post (1 page!!!!) supporting Laney's arguments. His post is WAY better than mine... he actually makes sense! HAHA!

Arachas said it best... MEDICS ARE TO FIGHT!!! My medics fight like everyone else, or my Officers will SHOT them! Mad Sniper

Seriously... sorry, there is no secret formula. As a matter of fact, on design we go for the 'how can we make this Squad unique?' frame of mind. Also, we HATE automatics and 'creep'... you need to adapt your game style with every Squad!

_________________
.
The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Red Kaiser



Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-02-01
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:03 am

Mordheimer wrote:
Some time ago somehow I made a record-long post (1 page!!!!) supporting Laney's arguments. His post is WAY better than mine... he actually makes sense! HAHA!

Arachas said it best... MEDICS ARE TO FIGHT!!! My medics fight like everyone else, or my Officers will SHOT them! Mad Sniper

Seriously... sorry, there is no secret formula. As a matter of fact, on design we go for the 'how can we make this Squad unique?' frame of mind. Also, we HATE automatics and 'creep'... you need to adapt your game style with every Squad!

I wasn't looking for an automatic I just didn't want to take anything really stupid Very Happy. When I get to make my own characters and so on I often end up with weird things... and if it is more of a role play game I find it hard not to be evil... Even in 40k where there is the whole mathhammer thing... I often take strange armies such as Kroot Mercs and my guardian heavy footdar!
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:29 pm

Probably the best advice from here then is to create a squad list - post it and ask for feedback (which of course you can take or leave). That way you can find out about the potential of the squad, any glaring gameplay type errors and we get to see how another player thinks about building squads (benefits all round!).

Cheers Laney Very Happy

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Da Bank



Posts : 2714
Join date : 2009-07-28
Location : Fort Myers, FL (USA)

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:35 pm

My medics stay in the back as my heroes always are out in front and getting killed. Pistol
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Mordheimer



Posts : 9756
Join date : 2009-07-12
Age : 43
Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:22 am

Da Bank wrote:
My medics stay in the back as my heroes always are out in front and getting killed. Pistol
... he forgot to mentioned his dice are cursed! (LINK) Just Kidding

_________________
.
The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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PostSubject: Re: Give me your wisdom...   Today at 2:50 pm

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