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 Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists

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speshul



Posts : 24
Join date : 2011-02-03
Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:01 pm

Hello again!

How many of you play a perfect list (i.e. Ork boys with just a club, naked workers etc, disposable meat sheilds) and how many of you start with fluffy lists.

Example I have a decent 12 man ork list but that involves 4 boys with just a club. Talking to the others I'm going to be playing with we dicussed this and agreed to play fluffly lists even if it means every one starts with 2 or 3 men less. If we all do it it should make for a reasonably balanced campaign, right? I expext we will do a few demo games before we start with out proper games.

Using the example above, I would atelast give the orc boys two CC weapons. I doubt I would give a BS 2 recruit a gun, bearing in mind the cheapest gun is 20 and that is almost as much as the recruit.

What is everyones thoughts on this?
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Laney



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Age : 40
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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:39 pm

It depends what you mean by fluffy. If you mean each member of the squad is equipped (so no 'naked' squad members) then it should remain balanced between the squads in the campaign.

Remember that this is a possible WAAAGH! in its first infant steps. Meaning that the members will be poorly equipped initially and build up from there. I like to try and create a squad that encompasses both elements - competitive and fluffy (by my view). I may lose more games as a result, but the squad seems to develop just as well in the long run.

Laney cheers

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tendi



Posts : 187
Join date : 2010-07-11

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:21 pm

Fluffy or not i never go with naked models. It has no sens. The same with only one cc weapon and nothing else.

I usually from start decide cc or shooting orientation of model and stick to it so 2 cc weapons or rapid fire weapon.

Only with time and spare credits i give shooters some cc weapon and recycled guns for cc fighters.
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Laney



Posts : 3352
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Age : 40
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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:46 pm

What tendi said makes a lot of sense - though I do like a few blastas or sluggas in the ork armoury to give me some dakka! (My ard boy took out a pathfinder with a critical head shot - a couple of games ago - which was just an off chance effort!).

Recycling your weapons through the squad in a planned way allows you to get extra benefit from the weapons (no weapons should be redundant early on). This for me is a difficulty with the Heavy Weapon Specialist in the IG. Do I take a grenade launcher to replace it with a heavy stubber later, knowing that no-one else can use it? For me (even at 15 credits and some useful grenades), I'd rather give him an autogun that he can pass on to another recruit, when I buy him the heavy stubber Santa promised him!

Laney Very Happy

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I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Narcissus



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Location : Vancouver, BC

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:39 pm

I definitely do a mix of fluff and competitive gaming. I like including units that are fun for me and don't worry too much about min-maxing my warband. Adding a 3 credit club to a recruit is not too expensive whereas trying to equip everyone with a las-gun for the first game is pretty onerous. Part of the game is finding a balance that works for you. I like that DS is different from 40k in that there are not tried and true competitive combo-mega-lists. If something doesn't work you can always retool (or maybe even be underdog) in a game or two in a campaign.

Play some games and see how it goes! You are not going to cripple your campaign by taking 3 guns over 2 more recruits initially...
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speshul



Posts : 24
Join date : 2011-02-03
Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:36 am

Perfect thank you. Understanding the optmial list is good, but having fun is better. I really want a grot sniper just there to annoy the enemy....

Hopefully we will get to play soon!
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:19 pm

I will have LOTS of Grot Snipers... but in due time. I mean, make a nice fluffy (yet stable) list... then work your way up. Having a naked Gretchin FEELS right... HAHAHA!! Does that sounds as bad as I think? Anyway, having naked Kommandoz... well, it is not.

Remember, this is not a binary (all or nothing) thing... it is a progressive evolution. Cheap Clubs, then Choppas, then Chain Choppas, then Big Choppas. Same thing with Armor... Mesh, then Flak, the Carapace. Do get an "edge"... but don't go too far. It will cripple your Squad design. Wink

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Sev



Posts : 47
Join date : 2010-11-12
Location : Kiev, Ukraine

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:14 am

my preference goes to fluffy rosters, which usually halves the number of squad members, but i simply can't bare my spacey elves running around naked - goes against everything known about them

then again: one should try different squad-building approaches for the sake of experience
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Ninja pidgeon



Posts : 8
Join date : 2011-01-23
Location : Glasgow, scotland

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:25 pm

My IR squad is very fluff based ( using them as Dark Mechanicus cult ) so each recruit is equipped no more than a skitarii or sevitor would. In a way I find this helps as it stops me putting trivial items on my guys for the sake of it. IR is one of those squads that other players use a LOT of naked members in but I found my squad to be just as good as or better than these squads ( not lost a game yet ), in the end it all comes down to what you as a player prefers, quality or quantity


Last edited by Ninja pidgeon on Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DoomOnYou72



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:12 pm



That about sums it up Laughing
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Lydor



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Age : 28
Location : Roswell, New Mexico (USA)

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:52 am

I'm a fluff player.

Cadian FTW

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Gatlag Stonetooth



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:13 am

Fluff's creating my squad/warbands/armies
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:03 pm

HAHA! Great pic, Lydor!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Mordoten



Posts : 138
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:04 pm

Well, in 9 times out of 10 the advice on this section is "drop that xxx equipment and get more models with autoguns" whenever someone publishes an idea for a squad.
so, for me it seems that optimization is more important in most cases here.
A little weird since this is apparently a story telling skirmish game.... Laughing

But for myself I just want a maximum of 10 models to deal with, so I rather load up on funky gear and weird stuff than on maximizing my autogun grunts...

Did try the naked orc with clubs thingie once... Early campaign win for sure...
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Long_John_Silver



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Age : 33
Location : Akron, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:08 pm

The liking how the models look directs my lists. If I have a cool conversion idea I want it to be in the game and will use it even if it does not make the most tactical sense.
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:12 pm

@ Mordoten: Just in case you missed the last time I posted in reference to the 'story telling thing'...

http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t1804-ork-warband-list

Any story that is based on the starting equipment of a squad, rather than the events of the individual games and events of a campaign is going to be somewhat hollow. Stories are finished in the final chapter not the prologue.

There is a huge difference between a 'fluffy build' and a story telling game.

When people post their squad lists it is usually for tactical rather than fluff advice and that is what they get, otherwise they would clarify the reasoning behind the choices they made.

Nice to see that you posted how you would build a squad. It is interesting to see that you criticise others advice while providing none of your own on those threads.

Laney

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I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Mordoten



Posts : 138
Join date : 2010-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:19 am

I think i actually gave a example or two how i try and build my squads in my last post. But maybe you where to busy writing an in depth essay on what a story telling game is...

But to make sure you don't miss it again here it comes ( even with some additions):

Few models, usually below 10. Kit up the heroes with armour so they have a bettet chance of surviving. I like WYSIWYG and usually try to go with that. Always have the maximum amount of allowed flamers because they are the shiznit.

There you go!
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:20 pm

Quote :
Nice to see that you posted how you would build a squad. It is interesting to see that you criticise others advice while providing none of your own on those threads.

Just so you can see that I did read your previous post. Thanks for the outline of how you'd build your squads. Variety is always good.

Two sentences is hardly an in-depth essay. I gave the detail I thought was necessary to explain mine and others posts, apologies if it was excessive.

My question is (as you brought up the lack of apparent story telling in the game/lists): What makes your list more appropriate for story telling than any other?

Laney Smile

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I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Mordoten



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:15 pm

Oh, i don't storytell, and never claimed that i did. I play games to win mostly. What got me to like theese kind of games was all the work around the actual gaming sessions with the converting and painting of models and terrain.

I just find it somewhat funny that on some threads people try to hammer home that this game is about making stories and all that and then give advice that I think is prioritizing other aspects.

Then again, i don't make explosion sounds or try to impersonate orks when i play either....
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:46 pm

Ok, now that makes a lot more sense. Playing to win is fine of course, but to me (personal opinion) it seems a shame to miss on the other elements. But then I got into 40k etc through roleplaying games, so for me the story is one of the important bits.

Quote :
I just find it somewhat funny that on some threads people try to hammer home that this game is about making stories and all that and then give advice that I think is prioritizing other aspects.

But, these aspects aren't mutually exclusive. Optimising a squad (to any degree), doesn't have to negatively effect other aspects. It can, but only if the player allows that to happen.

Quote :
What got me to like theese kind of games was all the work around the actual gaming sessions with the converting and painting of models and terrain.

You and me both - there's huge amounts of potential in this game for conversions etc. Very Happy

Quote :
Then again, i don't make explosion sounds or try to impersonate orks when i play either....

Me neither (well occasionally, quietly, when no-one else is listening!) Just Kidding

Laney Very Happy

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I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Long_John_Silver



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PostSubject: Re: Optimal Vs Fluffy Lists   Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:50 pm

I think the ragtag under-equipped group growing into an elite squad is a much better story than the group whose equipment remains basically unchanged from the start.

The car I resurrected from rusted scrap to a show piece makes for a much better story than the one bought new off a dealer's lot.
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