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dumdeedum



Posts : 243
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 26
Location : London, UK

PostSubject: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Ok then, I was had a few questions about how people go about painting. I've done some modelling and painting before, but I'd quite like to get my painting to look decent for once, so I may aswell get some basic ideas right so I just have to improve my technique.

Firstly, undercoating, is white or black better? Or is situation based? So one is good for some types of colours, and the other good for different colour schemes. Also, if you don't have a spray can, is it ok to just use a paint brush to undercoat everything is time isn't an issue?

Bit of an odd question, but I bought some paints a while ago, some coat d'arms black hat ones, and I forgot to get any kind of brown colour (though I think i might have a brown if one came in the GW ink set, though I'm not at home so I can't check) so can someone recomend a good all purpose brown paint, theres so many of them and I don't know which to choose from on the GW site alone, let alone anywhere else.

Then finally, what do people do when they finish painting? Do they varnish them? Or leave them? Or what?

Sorry for the probably stupid, and odd questions, and thanks for any advice in advance
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mudboy



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:24 pm

I don't know if std. paint can be used for priming with a good result so I'll leave that one for someone else to answer. I mainly use Black undercoat for two reasons.
1. I like my mini's dark and gritty.
2. If you miss a deep crevase or something like that with the paint when you have used a white primer, it will look odd. If you use a black primer it will just look like shading.

There is a brown wash in GW's wash set. It's great as wash but can not be used as substitute for a paint. I use GW's Calthan Brown for most things. It's a little dark and it is a Foundation so it only needs two thin layers to cover a black undercoat.

I only use varnish on metal and resin as they seem to chip mush easyer than on a plastic model.

The only stupid questions is the one's you don't ask Very Happy

Cheers
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:18 pm

I use(d) Vallejo Paints. The pigments are great and the dropper lets me control how much paint I put out (and the rest does not dry out!)

Priming black will yield an over-all 'dark' look and white a 'light' one. If you plan to paint a model of a baby blue butterfly, I would recommend White Primer. If you want to paint a Dark Angel Space Marine... black.

You should NOT use normal paint as 'primer'. Remember that the Primer is a specific TYPE of paint that bonds (glues) normal paint to a surface. This will explain best; you have a metal Space Marine:
* You paint the Armor red. Looks great. A week later, you rub the paint off with your finger. BAD!!!
* You paint the Armor black. Paint the Armor over with Red. Looks great (no black visible). A week later, you rub the paint off with your finger. BAD!!!
* You paint the model with Primer. You paint the Armor red. Looks great. Paint stays for LONG time.

If you are re-booting your painting, I suggest you check the dipping and wash tutorials. Very nice results in short time!

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dumdeedum



Posts : 243
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Age : 26
Location : London, UK

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:48 pm

Any recomendations on what vallejo brown would be useful. And since I only have paints and inks/washes, what should I buy? A spray primer (I'd probably get a white one) and what else? And where would I get them?

Since I'm only going to be painting a few models (squads only going to be like 10 models) I don't think I'll need to do dipping, dipping does look like it gives good results though.
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Arachas



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:46 pm

Not entirely true that, Mord. I've painted several models, just slapping on generic black paint with a brush. Never had any paint come off. But in theory you're right of course: priming is absolutely better.

If I'd get one wash it'd be GW Devlan Mud. GREAT shading, very natural look. It makes anything look gritty and realistic. I use it on Imperial Guard, LotR High Elves, but also vehicles and buildings.

As for where you can get them... you can usually get entire set sof paint on Ebay. Or you can try your local store. Otherwise try www.maelstromgames.co.uk. Very good online store: no postage and usually lower-than-retail rates.

A final word on spray primer: I always use black, even for brightly coloured models. I prefer to just work my way up from a dark coat to a lighter color. Tons of layers and work, but I prefer the results: flatter and more realistic. Depends on your taste, though.

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dumdeedum



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Age : 26
Location : London, UK

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:09 pm

Maelstrom looks like a really useful store, particularly if they do free delivery. I've been looking through their painting stuff, and would it be worth getting varnish for my models? And in that case would it be best to get gloss, matt or satin varnish?

Also, would it be better to get a spray or a polyurethane primer which i can then paint on?

I think I've already got devlan mud, but what I need is a normal brown paint, for use on wooden gun stocks etc.

Thanks
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:31 pm

This is what I use to Prime...

SPRAY AUTO PRIMER

It comes in a spray can, is dark grey (or a dull black, depending on light) and the mist is ULTRA fine (makes GW primer feel like you are sand-blasting!) The GW Primer cost $10 a can... the auto primer is $2.50 at any auto-part store (or Walmart!) There are several brands... test on plastic (cheap) models, to see the brand you prefer. I have found them all equally GREAT... but the tone of 'black' may differ. Some people hate that... I'm ultra-practical; I'm painting over it! Just Kidding

I have painted BRIGHT models which have been primed black... no problem. There is also brush on primer... but for such effort, I rather use the cheap auto-primer.

Arachas is right... if you use regular paint as a base, you model may not chip... or may chip/flake after 10 years... or a week. It is always a mystery. I think the time that take to peel off is inversely proportional to how much you like the paint job. If you finish an award winning model, expect it to flake off overnight. If you think your paint job is so bad that would give a dog (color-blind) explosive diarreah, expect the paint to NEVER come off (not even after soaking for 10 years in Simple Green or even commercial grade brake -fluid... hell, the metal would vanish and you will end up with a paint 'skin'!)

Again... the cheap alternative makes NO excuses for not priming.


HERE goes another trick... if your model is plastic, you can prime with "Outdoor Plastic Furniture Primer and Paint"... COLOR. Krylon makes the one I like to use... it is 'expensive' (HAHAHAH!!! It is $4 a can!), but the model is primed in color. I primed my Orks green. The result? Shinny 'Goblin Green' models. I then painted the clothes/armor/weapons as normal. The skin? A Wash with green ink (to get muscle definition). When dry, a drybrush of goblin-green (kills the shine) and then a LIGHT brush of scorpion green (for highlights). Imagine... you can paint your Smurfs (sorry... ULTRAMARINES) with that royal blue as prime & base, then paint ink it blue (for a nice new armor finish) or brown (for a dirty used armor look), then the gun (black, drybrush boltgun metal) and you are done! Add a 'super' job by applying decals... you have above table-top models... FROM A SPRAY!!!

Always base your models... even if it is simple gravel and few static grass.


To seal the models... I use the Vallejo finishes on my good models and spray on the rest. There are THREE 'kinds' of clear coating; Matte, Satin & Gloss.
* Matte: The finish result is with no shine... the model seems to look 'white'. Unless you are painting models in snow, avoid this like having sex with Nurgle. Trust me... I cried and THREW away my first models when I saw how the 'clear' coat ruined my first work. If you 'dip' your models (see the Tutorial), they will end up super glossy and shinny... then the Matte Finish is recommended to 'kill' the shine. This is part of that technique (I recommend it to you!!!)... but for 'normal' painting... IT SUCKS!!!

* Gloss: Complete opposite... the models will look shinny, wet and... unrealistically cartoonish. There are some uses (like painting mermaid coming out of the water... but generally it SUCKS!!!! How much? So much that when other techniques produce gloss finish, you need to tone it!

* Satin: You guess it! It is the middle... not dull, not shiny. It preserves the tones and highlights you painted. If you painted something dull, it will stay dull and so on.

You NEED to experiment with brands. The cheap sealer I used from Walmart says Satin, but is as dull as any other brand's Matte. It's Matte is almost white and the Gloss was so shinny that I could increase the amount of light from a candle enough for me to paint 'romantically'! Just Kidding Once you find a brand... stick to it! I use Krylon... expensive at $3.50 (the other one was $1!)

Now... you can brush-on the sealer. It takes time... but yields perfect results every time! I use the Vallejo sealers. The bottles have droppers (no drying out paint!) and are great. I have 1 bottle of each kind. You could use the Gloss to seal the power weapon and get that 'glowing' effect. If you combine it with the electrical power technique (Laney's tutorial) the end result is OUT OF THIS WORLD!

The cool thing about sealers is that you can combine them. For example, you have soldiers that have walked through mud. The 'cheap' models (not your Officers or master-pieces) you seal with Satin Spray. After they dry, you brush Gloss over the mud boots and base... voilá! Instant fresh mud. You could do that with the mouth of a Warp Entity or a Tyranid.

You know... I expect you to pay for my advice in PICTURES! Just Kidding Good luck!

_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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dumdeedum



Posts : 243
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Age : 26
Location : London, UK

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:23 pm

I'll get pictures eventually, but it won't be for a while, I'm considering buying a model (which I'm really scared of wrecking - £12.99 + delivery :s) and the paints to get started on them in about 10 days.

Think I'm going to get the vallejo satin varnish (£2.50), along with some halfords white primer (£7.50 for 500ml and they don't do black) as thats the big auto place in the UK and it gets good reviews. Still don't know what brown I'll get, probably a coat d'arms one just so I've got all the same kind of paints.

Then when I get home next weekend I'll have a go at painting some spare models and see how things go, don't want to wreck my death squad's models prematurely cos some of the models are going to be really expensive. Then I can put up some pictures so you guys can laugh at my painting Smile

Another question (I'm full of them aren't I?) is what do I use for static grass? Or I'd probably prefer concrete slab looking bases (something to fit an urban environment) so tips on that would be nice, but I'll work up to that from gravel (sugar) and grass on my practices.

Thanks for all the help guys Smile
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Dysturbed



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Age : 35
Location : Caldwell, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:43 pm

I use only Krylon Black/Grey/White Automotive Primer
DO NOT buy high build primer or you will lose all your detail.
When I paint I use Vallejo Paints and a few Tamiya opaque paints for blood and glass lenses on helmets & gems.
GW washes with a few home made ones made with the Awesomepainjob.com method.
I use Testors gloss then Testors Flat Clears to protect the paint after painting.
The Testor's flat is the flatest finish I have found it keeps detail and looks great.

As far as colors you need to get yourself a nice range of what you think you will use.
I never paint strait colors but then again im a classicly trained artist so I don't go with what most people do.

_________________
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Founder, The Society for Better Game Design
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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:47 pm

This is still kind of painting related, so I thought I'd chuck this question in this thread.

How do you guys base you models? I've never done it before and I'm not sure how to go about it really. Do I just coat a base in glue and drop sand over it? And do you then just paint it then add a wash to it? I'd hate to paint up a model and then ruin it with a dodgy base.

And where do you get static grass from and how do you use it?

Sorry about the probably really easy questions, but I'd rather ask here than find out the hard way and ruin some bases and models in the process.

Thanks
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mudboy



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:37 pm

Cheap and easy basing Very Happy
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Laney



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Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:07 pm

If you're in the UK and after static grass you can either...

Go to any Hornby model railway/Airfix model shop and they should have plenty of static grass (and different colours) for you and if not be able to tell you where to get it. There are usually a couple of these places about (there are four within 30 minutes drive of where I am in Essex)
or
Buy it online from Antenociti's Workshop (great for sci-fi scenery bits in general)
or
Buy it at ridiculous prices from GW stores (but at least they have a range of colours) for tiny amounts

On the basing front - pick up some slate (I get mine from the garden - but a garden centre will have a lifetime supply), Get some playpit sand (again it will be a lifetime supply) - I actually use chinchilla sand, because I stole it from my pet chin or go to the beach, small granite chips from model rail shops are good and so is cork tile (very cheap too).

If you want something fancy (particularly as it sounds like you are going for posh models) - you might want to look into the various resin bases that companies make out there - some are amazing.

Hope this helps

Laney Very Happy

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Last edited by Laney on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:22 pm

Wow, that Antenociti's Workshop site is really good, think I might get an embossed styrene sheet or two for basing, as well as some static grass, I'm just trying to decide what size and colour would be best if I'm just going to get one lot (no point getting loads with the number of models I have).
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Dysturbed



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:19 am

I use alot of sheet cork to do basing it makes nice rock outcroppings and slate looking stuff. Be sure to rip it instead of cut it or it will look like crap

_________________
Death Squads One-Man Art Deptartment & Lead Designer for Craftworld Eldar.
Founder, The Society for Better Game Design
My DeviatArt Page http://wnxdysturbed.deviantart.com/ My DeviantGroup for 40k Models http://40kmodelgallery.deviantart.com/

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Arachas



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:28 am

dumdeedum wrote:
Sorry about the probably really easy questions, but I'd rather ask here than find out the hard way and ruin some bases and models in the process.

No such thing, my friend. We're all happy to share the knowledge. You gotta start somewhere!

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:55 pm

dumdeedum wrote:
Wow, that Antenociti's Workshop site is really good [...]
Link?

_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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dumdeedum



Posts : 243
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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:34 pm

Well here it is: Antenociti's Workshop

I'm just waiting for a few things to come into stock before I get them. Also I need to wait for money to be mine.

Any advice on what static grass is good, as in size, is 2mm too small?
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:05 pm

I just checked... they have the Army Painter soft shade for £8.00... GOOD DEAL! I prefer strong shade... but for light colored (clean or bright) models, this is great.

_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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RyanIronwolf



Posts : 8
Join date : 2010-07-14

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:50 pm

*sniff* So...Proud...


Mordheimer wrote:
This is what I use to Prime...

SPRAY AUTO PRIMER

It comes in a spray can, is dark grey (or a dull black, depending on light) and the mist is ULTRA fine (makes GW primer feel like you are sand-blasting!) The GW Primer cost $10 a can... the auto primer is $2.50 at any auto-part store (or Walmart!) There are several brands... test on plastic (cheap) models, to see the brand you prefer. I have found them all equally GREAT... but the tone of 'black' may differ. Some people hate that... I'm ultra-practical; I'm painting over it! Just Kidding

I have painted BRIGHT models which have been primed black... no problem. There is also brush on primer... but for such effort, I rather use the cheap auto-primer.

Arachas is right... if you use regular paint as a base, you model may not chip... or may chip/flake after 10 years... or a week. It is always a mystery. I think the time that take to peel off is inversely proportional to how much you like the paint job. If you finish an award winning model, expect it to flake off overnight. If you think your paint job is so bad that would give a dog (color-blind) explosive diarreah, expect the paint to NEVER come off (not even after soaking for 10 years in Simple Green or even commercial grade brake -fluid... hell, the metal would vanish and you will end up with a paint 'skin'!)

Again... the cheap alternative makes NO excuses for not priming.


HERE goes another trick... if your model is plastic, you can prime with "Outdoor Plastic Furniture Primer and Paint"... COLOR. Krylon makes the one I like to use... it is 'expensive' (HAHAHAH!!! It is $4 a can!), but the model is primed in color. I primed my Orks green. The result? Shinny 'Goblin Green' models. I then painted the clothes/armor/weapons as normal. The skin? A Wash with green ink (to get muscle definition). When dry, a drybrush of goblin-green (kills the shine) and then a LIGHT brush of scorpion green (for highlights). Imagine... you can paint your Smurfs (sorry... ULTRAMARINES) with that royal blue as prime & base, then paint ink it blue (for a nice new armor finish) or brown (for a dirty used armor look), then the gun (black, drybrush boltgun metal) and you are done! Add a 'super' job by applying decals... you have above table-top models... FROM A SPRAY!!!

Always base your models... even if it is simple gravel and few static grass.


To seal the models... I use the Vallejo finishes on my good models and spray on the rest. There are THREE 'kinds' of clear coating; Matte, Satin & Gloss.
* Matte: The finish result is with no shine... the model seems to look 'white'. Unless you are painting models in snow, avoid this like having sex with Nurgle. Trust me... I cried and THREW away my first models when I saw how the 'clear' coat ruined my first work. If you 'dip' your models (see the Tutorial), they will end up super glossy and shinny... then the Matte Finish is recommended to 'kill' the shine. This is part of that technique (I recommend it to you!!!)... but for 'normal' painting... IT SUCKS!!!

* Gloss: Complete opposite... the models will look shinny, wet and... unrealistically cartoonish. There are some uses (like painting mermaid coming out of the water... but generally it SUCKS!!!! How much? So much that when other techniques produce gloss finish, you need to tone it!

* Satin: You guess it! It is the middle... not dull, not shiny. It preserves the tones and highlights you painted. If you painted something dull, it will stay dull and so on.

You NEED to experiment with brands. The cheap sealer I used from Walmart says Satin, but is as dull as any other brand's Matte. It's Matte is almost white and the Gloss was so shinny that I could increase the amount of light from a candle enough for me to paint 'romantically'! Just Kidding Once you find a brand... stick to it! I use Krylon... expensive at $3.50 (the other one was $1!)

Now... you can brush-on the sealer. It takes time... but yields perfect results every time! I use the Vallejo sealers. The bottles have droppers (no drying out paint!) and are great. I have 1 bottle of each kind. You could use the Gloss to seal the power weapon and get that 'glowing' effect. If you combine it with the electrical power technique (Laney's tutorial) the end result is OUT OF THIS WORLD!

The cool thing about sealers is that you can combine them. For example, you have soldiers that have walked through mud. The 'cheap' models (not your Officers or master-pieces) you seal with Satin Spray. After they dry, you brush Gloss over the mud boots and base... voilá! Instant fresh mud. You could do that with the mouth of a Warp Entity or a Tyranid.

You know... I expect you to pay for my advice in PICTURES! Just Kidding Good luck!
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Mordheimer



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Join date : 2009-07-12
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Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:41 pm

RyanIronwolf wrote:
*sniff* So...Proud...

LOL Why you say that?

_________________
.
The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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dumdeedum



Posts : 243
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 26
Location : London, UK

PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:15 pm

Well I've bought myself a few things and started upon painting a model. So far I'm distinctly disappointed in my lack of miraculously discovered painting skills, and I think I'm going to regret my colour scheme, but hopefully by this time tomorow I will have a painted miniature to show off (yes that means pictures, but only if i can get a family member to lend their camera to me). Though I'm kind of regretting painting this model first cos I really love it and should have waited till I was actually passable at painting, but hey ho, whats done is done.

Thanks for all the advice everyone has given me Smile
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:17 am

Please post pics (new thread!)... we will help you the best we can! There are lots of techniques that we can share to improve your Skills.

Ohhh... and start with simple models! Wink

_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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PostSubject: Re: Painting Advice Please   Today at 7:48 pm

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