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 Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.

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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:18 am

Hey there - just found your forum, and instantly downloaded DS Living rulebook, as it seems that it is JUST what I was looing for Very Happy

I've been playing warhammer 40k for half a year, and before that Mordheim for a couple of years. I found out (in fact i already knew that) that i was a dog for Sci-Fi, and that fantasy bored me. W40K seemed like a reasonable choice, but i like city-skimishes more that large scale combat. So letting Mordheim behind me I went out on a quest (NO! Mission!), to find something LIKE mordheim, but with guns, toxic waste and grenades Rifle . DS looks just fantastic, and mayhab my mission is over, and I can concentrate on getting my orks together and making some terrain.

In that respect, I would like some advice, as I have been looking (lurking) around on the terrain section on this forum, and found a great deal of inspiration for pieces. I have no shame in admitting that I want to copy / paste some of the ideas, because they simply are awsome, but hope to be able to contribute with some inspiration the other way too Smile

Here are some of the things I'm working on at the moment:

A "deep strike platform", I chose not to put it on a base, to make it blend more naturally on a gaming table. It needs some wear and tear, as much of my terrain does, seems like I have a very "clean" expression:



As an ork enthusiast, I need to have some of these. The base of the straws need some attention, simply overlooked it:



A nob to show the size of the "signs":



Here are three pictures of my "Imperial Gas Station", I'm working on right now. I have printed the sign on the front, and could need some advice on how to make it look "old" and "battleworn". I have sprayed it with varnish so it does not suck up too much paint. My initially idea was to make som bullet holes and wash it down with some rust effects... but i simply have come to a standstill.







Please comment and advice =)
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Colonel Prius



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:32 am

First off, Welcome! Usually we would beg, nay demand, pictures, but since you've already posted some, I dont know what else to say on the welcome front Wink

So on to your question then. I already really like the pieces, especially the gas station, but as you said, they could do with some weathering. I think moss and grass are a good place to start and washing it in a whole load of brown/mudcolor ink or watered down paint will give it that dirty look. Also look at some real life examples such as this one:



As you can see it is not very even colored (dirt caking on the walls, which I think you can do by the aforementioned washing), it has grass growing out of unusual places and is pretty much sagged and crooked. Not to mention all the holes and debris.
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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:26 am

Oh, I see I forgot to mention: I have not basecoated the gasstation black yet. It was more on the actual sign; "imperial Gas" I was having trouble.

I will try to implement Your advice tonight and post on progress, but if anyone have som tutorials on signs and weather effects i would be gratefull.


Last edited by Komfritten on Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:27 am

Welcome!

Love the pics and terrain! To weather correctly (realistically, I mean) imagine that it is raining BLACK rain over the building. Where do you visualize the run-off go? Does the building have gutters? If so, are they broken or clogged? If they are, where you see the over-flow pouring out?

On the platform...


I would say that a WATERED DOWN brown wash on the joint between the platform and the ramp water may accumulate and the spill out. Over time it would turn dark. Some grass would naturally grow there... if the platform were maintained, it would be cleaned out, but since it is abandoned it would grow there.

On the WAAAGH! sign...

You already have some rust on some of the teeth... continue a little below and it would create the illusion.

On the Imperial Gas sign...
Imagine if you were the PROUD owner of a brand new franchise of Imperial Gas. How would you paint your building? Maybe the columns yellow and the building red/yellow. Now, to weather it... the parts near the ceiling should be less weathered (little sun or rain) than the bottom... thus you get some discoloration. Also, some grass growing on the roof and on the base of the pump.

All in all AWESOME TERRAIN!

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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:50 am

Thanks for the advice!

While i was sitting mumbling over my Imp Gas St. and looking around on the forum I decided to kick up some of the things I found:

The "motivational posters" and the "barrel tutorial" - very need things and work! So here is what I put together:



This place does wonders for my motivation Very Happy
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:29 pm

Welcome!

I agree with the advice given so far - brown is the new black and all that. A black wash in selected places can make a great scorched effect, particularly when combined with brown washes. Red browns, followed by bright oranges make for ace rust (see my nurgle champ for an example).

On the modelling front - some big metal paper clips (chopped up) would make for ace reinforced bar poking out the concrete parts of the deep strike platform.

Ace terrain - more pics! I demand more pics!

Laney Very Happy

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:14 pm

WOW! That Chem Hazard sing is AMAZING! I never thought about Laney's suggestion about the 'rebar'... I would give it a whirl! Take the post of the sign and 'break' a chunk of the top (not too much), so it looks like the post was taller. Then put 2 or the pieces of paper clip on the top (different sizes).. paint them boltgun metal and weather with rust. Voilá! Maybe a chunk off the side (near the barrel) and then a weathered rebar there... OHHHH!!!

Keep the GREAT work!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:29 pm

Ok decided to make a roof sign, to up the features a little. And tried to start the wear and tear process... I'm not complete happy with it, but i think I'ts a start:

A close-up of the roof-gas-sign:



I'ts positioned on the overhang-roof, and I started to roughen up the front-sign a little:



At the moment I think I will go on with the station, and hope that the sign will blend in to the whole pitcture - otherwise - basecoat and start over Rolling Eyes


I'm not sure I understand the "re-bar" idea... but is it something in line with this? :



Cut off the corner, and put it back together with some wires.



Hmm - luckily I've got lots of series to watch... waiting for the paint to dry... cant think of something better ... to watch paint dry... Sleep
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:29 pm

Please avoid multiple posting, as it makes the thread unnecessarily long and thus people tend to avoid it and they would miss your AWESOME work!


Komfritten, you are like a terrain-building-machine! How great are you? As great as the number of Guardsmen under the watchful eye of The Holy Emperor! Aquila

No critiques... very good work. I would be happy to play on terrain like that. But since you seem to have a HUGE standard, here are some ideas. Again... please, take them as my unworthy suggestions. Your terrain is SUPER!

When you use printed paper to make a background (like the GAS sign) you either have to 'weather it' on the image (i.e. Photoshop) or with paint. The reason why I suspect you are "not complete happy with it" is because your subconscious brain is telling you "it is a fake... it is not real!" When you see an Golden Daemon model (like DeafNala's or Laney's) your brain gets confused... the scale is so perfect that your mind can't decide if it is real or not. You get immersed into thinking that the Space Marine you are seeing is real and then... 'OMG!!! Space Marines are real!!!' and you get lost in the illusion.

When you look at Laney's dissection table (LINK for details) below...


Your mind sees it as 'real' and you start to freak out! Then suddenly you see the stupid paint pots on the background and you wake up. Then you start seeing the minute paint strokes on the rust and see them for what they are (a superb attempt to mimic real rust, but brush-strokes none the less) and the light source (notice how is slightly off from the flash!)

When I look at your sign, I see it VERY nicely... but I see something odd. The 'red' background on the sign is printed, while the weathering is painted. Hard to explain... OK, I got it! No matter how hard anyone tries, a painted 'rock' will never look the same as a REAL rock. The stupid thing could be all grey, but if you put it side by side with a real rock, something will be different. It is how the minuscule color reflections come from the real rock. As a matter of fact, a read rock pebble may have the shape of a huge boulder, but it will ALWAYS look like a pebble... the color would be off. In order for the pebble to look like a rock in a miniature base is for you to PAINT the rock to look like a rock. I know... it seems stupid, but painting miniatures is about tricking the observer.

I suggest you drybrush the red on the sign... red! Same tone... the drybush will give it an 'uneven' coat and will look more realistic. You could even use a darker tone of red for those areas near the brown weathering. Same thing with the yellow on the letters. You don't need to be 'perfect' covering all.

Since you are so good at making terrain, I suggest making a small 'street sign'... kindda like the ones that say the price for gallon... to practice. Print, drybrush, then weather. Then, if you like it, you could work on the bigger sign.

Let us know!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:08 am

This is ace terrain!

Mord has made some great points on the signs already. On the rebar - assuming in 40k they use reinforced concrete (they have a 40k name for it - but it's analogous. If part of a sign was damaged revealing the rebar inside it is not likely to remain attached (a GOOGLE search for this will show you what I mean) - So I would snip off the section of the sign and lay it on the base - leave some rebar in the main body of the sign a one or two in the fragment - that will give the sense of the internal structure of the building.

A second picky note - the reinforcement (IMO - I might be wrong! Just Kidding ) would probably reinforce horizontally or as a mesh of wire. Also 'crumbling the cut to make it less even would add to the effect.

Here's a link to an example...


Keep it up! Your work rate is very impressive

Hope this helps
Laney Very Happy


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Gatlag Stonetooth



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:55 am

Welcome aboard!
I like your terrain, a little more damaging and weathering would make it complete!
The guys before e already gave some good advice on the weathering so here's a tip on damaging:
You might know this already, but a pin vice is great for making bulletholes. Just drill some holes in the desired object. After that you can make the holes a little more odd shaped by scraping around in them with your hobby knife. Hope this is an useful tip for you. Smile
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:18 am

Some more examples of reinforced concrete failures, for some inspiration...










_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:50 pm

Wooh that is a lot of broken concrete! And cool stuff - got an idea I gotta write down =)

This is where i stand now:

I painted over the whole sign with a watered down red colour, so I could see the background through:



Then I painted on the sign again - this time covering all the printed icons and text with paint. After that I washed and demolished a little and this is the result:









The whole front looks like this now, the edge at the ground (english is not my native language - i do not know what it is called), need to be toned down, but I rather like the colours =) :



Between my angry outbursts over the front sign, I found time to start on the rest of the station. Now it's based as concrete and mud / earth. I've chosen to do it that way, to make it blend in with my gaming table:













I need to paint the wires, coming out of the pipe red, blue and yellow or such:



The tips' been great - and motivating, shame I did not stumble upon this forum before =)
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:24 pm

You are a MADMAN!!! WOW!

Just look at this...
BEFORE

AFTER


I told you... painting over (you did AWESOME!) the 'real' color does the trick! I look at the BEFORE picture and I think (no offense)... "Cool! Nice idea of using a printer!)"... then I see the AFTER (even when I know it is the same item) and I think... "Man... what a shame! At some point someone built an Imperial Gas Station, hand painting the holy Aquila and look at his dream now. All shattered by war. What a shame..." SEE?!? You tricked my mind automatically into submerging myself. I see someone TRYING to upkeep his shop, until one day he had to give up... BRAVO! The weathering is PERFECT... not too much, not too little. Remember some grass growing from those key places. Wink


Well, since you INSIST in putting up your standard... again, you have surpased my wildest attempts... Think; if you built a shop and it is your pride and joy... would you pain the inside? How about the floor? A counter, some chairs, soda machine. THEN the war came in, your store is gone... now a ghost of a brilliant past. The painted walls now slightly damaged and weathered. Maybe few broken windows and torned up posters and war-propaganda (search the forum on that!) The floor inside the store should be different... maybe a few broken ceiling lights (or even a fan!) The point is, the INSIDE of the store could be slightly different than the dirt & concrete outside. The observer would TRY to go in, peeking inside.

This is AWESOME... YOU are awesome! If you don't do anything else, it would STILL be great.

Aquila Salute Aquila

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:14 pm

I am definately going to add the motivational posters, as someone did in a tutorial at some other place on the forum - that was where I got the idea for the "chem sign".

On the funiture, I'm pressing my skills Shocked . I was thinking of adding some gas barrels, and some trash around the place. The funiture will be in the back of my mind - as I actually wanted it, but could not get my self around the "how".

Thanks again for the advice, it keeps to motiviation in top.
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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:00 pm

Wow, that is some amazing work, I wish I could make things like that, but I don't think I have the imagination, skill or patience to do it.

Thinking on Mordheimer's ideas for inside the station, a vending machine would be pretty cool, as well as fairly simple to make, its big enough that it might not have been stolen as other things in their might have been, and you could make it fairly colourful with a few posters on it maybe to make the room a bit more colourful. Then all you would need to make it complete is some broken odds and ends like a broken radio, some bits anf pieces of chairs and a few other bits and bobs to spruce it up.

Even without changing it at all that is amazing though, I'd be scared to touch it for fear of ruining it Smile
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Arachas



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:32 am

How about we order Komfritten to MAKE TERRAIN FOR US ALL!

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:58 am

I'm with you there Arachas, do it Smile
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:35 am

Arachas wrote:
How about we order Komfritten to MAKE TERRAIN FOR US ALL!
HAHAH! I want a SUPER Gas Station... with a Convenience Store!

The Simpsons' Kwik-e-Mart


Real-life 7-Elevens were transformed into Kwik-e-Marts on July 2007 as an ad for The Simpson's Movie.









Do THAT for terrain!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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PostSubject: Re: Needs advice on wear and tear - and showoffs.   Today at 2:06 am

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