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 IG Squad [Yet to be Named]

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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:15 pm

here is my "Father's Day Present" The officers and Ogryn are from my bitz box hence the crappy paint work they will be fixed up when I get to the painting stage.

The Squad:


The Captain [Name Classified]


1st Lieutenant [Un-named offficer]


2nd Lieutenant [Preacher]


1st Sergeant [Pierce]


2nd Sergeant [Hawke Eye]


Heavy Weapons


The Lads



The Big Boy [Smurf]


like I said the officers and Ogryn are crappy looking but will fix them up.... thinking of doing a grey and purple colour scheme might even try some different styles so any suggestions would be great [eg tutorials on painting!!! some of your painting skills bottled up so I can inject it and maybe become slightly better then below average....]

LGW


Last edited by Lord GreyWolf on Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:38 am

well here they are after having an ink wash.

Still need to fix up a few things on them maybe add some highlights, then fix up the bases and add some transfers.

The Officers:

Need to fix up the Preachers head didn't come out right. I might do a brown ink on all of their faces to bring them out a bit more. I wanted that real white look on their faces. sort of like a lack of sun feel to them.

The Lads:

Medic, Demo expert, close combat, Comms


Lasguns and Flamer


Lasguns and Flamer

Cheers
LGW
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Arachas



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am

Nice! And the best part is: they can easily double as Slaanesh Chaos Cultists. Slaanesh

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:58 am

The models got great potential! Few recommendations/critiques... all in good intentions.

I think that painting directly and only with washes creates a... ghost effect? You can't make details and you have no 'solids'. Crap... it is hard to explain. Almost as hard as making the one-sentence premise for Squad design!

Your technique for Washing (or Inking) is solid... but when applied 'incorrectly', the results (not the technique) breaks the illusion of the model. I don't know if I'm making ANY sense. Probably not. OK... try this.

Take an unpainted IG and follow this guide. After you finish, compare it with one of the finished IG models. You will see what I mean by the ghost-effect. You could probably then explain this better. The recommendations below are 'designed' with the 'newbie' in mind. Not that I'm saying that you have never painted, but for THIS techniques, you don't have lots of XP. The recommendations are designed to get you the maximum result with minimal effort. You won't get near the level of quality that Dozer, Laney or DeafNala can produce (hell... nobody can!) but you could get VERY close. Over time, they can give you their tips and maybe get even closer!

You have a visualization of what the model should look. Now you need to deconstruct it on a palette of colors. This is easy to learn, hard to master. I still can't understand how Laney can reach his color depth. But for idiots like me, the easiest way is to get 3 Primary and 3 Secondary colors. Do what you visualize and do not be afraid of expanding your palette of colors.

For your IG test model, I suggest that your 3 Primary colors be CAMO GREEN (for the cloth, robes), PURPLE (for the armor, helmet & lasgun covers) and GOLD (for belt buckles & aquilas/symbols). For your 3 Secondary colors, I could select BLACK (for boots & other sections of weapons), FLESH (for head & hands) and BROWN (for leather.) Notice that you could add METAL as a 4th 2nd Color... but don't go overboard.

For that color scheme, the MAIN color could be GREEN with PURPLE accents, thus complimentary color should be YELLOW... thus the GOLD for small stuff. It ties the model together. You should avoid the friendly color BLUE and RED

Paint the model like that with SOLID paint. Paint the clothes Camo green (for example)... then experiment with washes! I would use the green wash over the camo green... it gives you 'cheap' camo! quickly! No details needed. I would use a black wash (maybe with a drop of brown) to cover all the model (except flesh). Don't use purple wash over purple, because you already did this for the green... looks sloppy. Then wash the flesh with brown.

Finally, get the details by DRYBRUSH with the same colors! It's like painting by numbers... drybrush grey over grey, blue over blue, etc. WHY? Because the was will make the deep sections very 'dark', the base color will remain on the rest with a slightly darker tone and then the drybrush (original color) will look "very bright". It also kills the wash "gleaming" finish... seal with "satin" finish for a natural tone. Wink

I think if you try this, you will end up with a better looking model... using the techniques you already mastered, while pushing yourself some more! Thanks for sharing!

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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:06 am



I am happy with my color scheme and the funny thing is I was after that ghost look....

I am going to add some more highlights and re-ink their faces with brown ink. but that's about it.

I know your trying to help my painting skills but seriously I can't compete/compare to those other forum users who's brilliance is not only a shinning beacon to us all but sets the bar that I as an under stated and very amateurish painter could never achieve [and please I should know I have been trying for many years and failed]

I guess I am just happy to have them to a table top standard and at least you can tell what they are......

Cheers
LGW
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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:14 am

Do you use flash when you take pictures? Looks like it. They seem a little overexponated, and thats a shame =)

I like that you "dare" to use more vivid colours - I myself cannot get that to work - but seems to work fine here.
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:15 am

Komfritten wrote:
Do you use flash when you take pictures? Looks like it. They seem a little overexponated, and thats a shame =)

I like that you "dare" to use more vivid colours - I myself cannot get that to work - but seems to work fine here.

My photo skills are as good as my painting skills lacking....

will try to take some better ones on my days off and use natural light rather then the flash...


LGW

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:55 am

ON PAINTING MODELS
Lord GreyWolf wrote:
I know your trying to help my painting skills but seriously I can't compete/compare to those other forum users who's brilliance is not only a shinning beacon to us all but sets the bar that I as an under stated and very amateurish painter could never achieve [and please I should know I have been trying for many years and failed]
I think you missed my point. The suggestion is for you to try something new. Think about it. Probably, just like me, I tried for EONS to paint "like the magazines and books"... but I was alone. Back in the day it took me anywhere between 24 to 40 hours of WORK to paint one model. The concept of paining an army was baffling. I got lucky and I found some great people to help me paint... and they challenged me to new techniques. I remember managing to paint my first highlights!

Anyway... WHERE best to learn than HERE? If you think you are at the bottom of the painting skill bar (and you are NOT... but one tend to be ones' worse critic!), how could you pass the chance to get coached by people who ARE indeed great painters? Not that I'm a great painter, but I just gave you some tips to start re-learning and polishing new techniques. Once you dominate those, probably Laney could give you some pointers. I still get CHILLS thinking about the verdigris tutorial and how manage to accomplish something so difficult for me (I tried for more than 5 years to do it) and Laney drilled it on my head in few lines (and pics). How cool would it be for you to get tips from DeafNala? How about from mudboy? You want to learn the art of drybrushing... Komfritten is a MASTER.

My point is that you need to leave the failures of the past behind you. OK... so you feel you failed when you tried before, and that you can only produce low quality models. NOW you can say that you want to give it a chance again! Yes, you may have a low expectation... but I'm 100% sure that if you try, we will support you and you will be able to improve. You will be VERY surprised on how much hidden talent you really have... you just need some REAL guidance. Learn and practice new techniques.

Follow my tips. You will dominate them really quick and you WILL be pleased with the result. Others (much better suited than me) will step in with new advice and challenges. If you accept them, you would increase your arsenal of painting tricks. Take it from me... I know I will NEVER paint at the same level than Dozer, Laney or DeafNala paint (specially Deaf's... UFFF!!!!) ... but that does not deter me to have that level as my personal goal. I will try to achieve it... I have the next 40 or 50 years to try.

Trust me on this. Accept the challenge. ONE MODEL... try it for size. See where it takes you. Smile


ON PHOTO SKILLS
Lord GreyWolf wrote:
My photo skills are as good as my painting skills lacking....
On with the excuses! Just Kidding Seriously... you know that my 2nd hobby is taking pics. Read the tutorials I made... good stuff.

If you don't have a photo booth, here are some GREAT tips. They are FREE (or almost free). As you said, natural light is BEST. But if you can make it, use INDIRECT LIGHT! Put the models on a table near a white wall. Closer, the better. Put the models OVER white paper. Take couple of bright lamps (2 or 3) and point them towards the wall... AWAY from the model. If the lamps have 'natural light' bulbs (rather than incandescent bulbs... they have a yellowish), better. This will cause the light to BOUNCE from the wall, illuminating the area better. Shadows are less noticeable.

Now, set the camera from the 'automatic' setting to the 'flower'. It tell the camera to set the f-stop to the areas for small focus. The camera does it automatically, so even if this is Chinese to you after reading the tutorials, you don't need to care. The result is that you get the models in FOCUS (which is what you want).

Next tip... either get a tripod for your camera OR get a book. WTF?! Hehehehe... get a 'solid' book that is 2 or 3 inches thick (phone book?) and put the camera there, rather than holding it in your hand. If you place the tripod of book in front of the models (10 to 122" away), you get the that "1st person" view, rather than the "bird's eye" view you are getting. This easy trick reduces the blurry pics AND lets you maximize the camera. You may even get to zoom in a little!

Last tip... PICASA. Get it... is FREE. It is Google's most powerful photo editing software... geared for ANTI-PHOTOSHOP guys like me. It is all single click buttons. You can crop picks, so you can remove 'blank' background and focus on models. The "I Feel Lucky" button is my favorite... ONE CLICK and the colors are corrected. Lots of over-exposed pics get fixed by magic. It is SUPER easy to do; from 1 to 10 (1 being the difficulty that takes to type 'hello' in notepad and 10 being able to draw a 3D model in Photoshop without any templates), this software is a 2.5... 3 at the most. It will even help you fix family pics!


ON IMPROVING YOUR SKILLS
I will be honest. As AMAZING as DeafNala can paint, as BAD as the man understood how to take pictures. For YEARS he used the 'demonically possessed camera' joke as an excuse for not taking pics. The weird part is that he WANTED to take pics and share with his friends all his stuff. He even sent models to others on 'vacation' so they could see the models. How weird is that?!?! But he managed to get over that 'fear' and taking a little advice from me (nothing really) he started experimenting. His 1st pictures were not good... but he got better! Not only that, he also learned to post pictures (trust me... that is easy for us, but for poor Deaf it was like trying to convert Satan to Fundamentalist Orthodox Christianity!) It was VERY hard for him. I have emails saying that he could NEVER learn to take pictures and shared them... that he had tried for years... that he did not care to try anymore... that he had given up on his dream of sharing the models. WTF?!?! Something that for you and me is so simple (stupid... really... no art or talent needed!) Something got to him (probably me not taking pictures of some of his models fast enough... SORRY DEAF!) and now he takes pictures like a pro AND shares his stuff with LOTS of people! Its like a new man! I could not believe my eyes! I'm so happy every time I get the photobucket's emails (I'm a fan of his account... so I get emails when new pics are uploaded!)

The lesson? If DeafNala could exorcise his camera... you can certainly paint models.

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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:11 am

ok stop beating me Stick of Doom Smack Stick of Doom Smack

Quote :
For that color scheme, the MAIN color could be GREEN with PURPLE accents, thus complimentary color should be YELLOW... thus the GOLD for small stuff. It ties the model together. You should avoid the friendly color BLUE and RED

so what If I want to use Purple for the robes/clothes and grey for the armour what do i use for the 3rd colour?

I will use the base coat as highlights on the clothes/robes and armour.... will try with one of the grunts tonight and see how I go.

LGW

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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:29 am

Haha, do you feel bruised? I do believe I know the feeling - but still, it pushes one forward.

Keep up the good work, and unfortunately I do not have an idea for the 3rd colour.
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:44 am

Komfritten wrote:
Haha, do you feel bruised? I do believe I know the feeling - but still, it pushes one forward.

Keep up the good work, and unfortunately I do not have an idea for the 3rd colour.

black and blue all over.

I think I might use green to break up some of the grey and purple. [ LOL Lady Grey will Laugh cause purple and green are my fav colours to mix up.]

LGW
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:05 am

hehehe... all the abuse? Kissy All about LOVE!

Komfritten, you should see how they treat ME when I try to design. Nuclear


Lord GreyWolf wrote:
so what If I want to use Purple for the robes/clothes and grey for the armour what do i use for the 3rd colour?

I will use the base coat as highlights on the clothes/robes and armour.... will try with one of the grunts tonight and see how I go.

No problem! The trick of this exercise is to paint SOLID colors. So paint the robes solid purple (not wash over white) and the armor grey (stone grey). You don't need a 3rd color... but green would so. Paint the 'big' details (skulls, buckles, belt, gun, etc... not eyes, scars, stubble, tattoos, etc.).. the model will look complete, but somewhat 'funny'. It ould look one dimensional or cartoonish. ITS OK! We will add the dimensions and 'small' details next.

Then AFTER the solids are done and dry, wash the purple with purple and everything else with black. Let the model dry. After that, drybrush with the same solid colors. You will see the model POP to life. FORGET painting eyes and micro details. Just BASE the model. You see a HUGE difference.

After you dominate that... then we worry about eyes. Maybe in few months. Just Kidding

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Gatlag Stonetooth



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:09 am

Very curious to the outcome of your test!
Green could indeed be used as a 3rd color and if you don't like that you could also try a yellow. That would combine as well. Smile
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:48 pm

I'm not convinced by the green (makes me think of the Riddler). I would use different shades of grey (very light would probably work) to fill in the 'gaps' or perhaps a neutral bone colour. One thing I do with my models is use the same basecoat, but vary the wash. This ties everything together, but gives variety - works really well for accessories e.g. Paint camo with khemri and calthan brown elements and use these colours for the highlights, leather straps, belts, weapon handles etc. A black wash on one bit will look very different to the same basecoat with a mud or flesh wash.

Simply put...
Calthan brown + black wash gives you a darker mid leather - good for boots
Calthan brown + mud wash gives you a mid 'brown' leather
Calthan brown + flesh wash gives you a reddy brown leather
Catlhan brown + gryphonne sepia gives you an 'orange or yellow' (at least to my eye) brown (this is the least obvious wash effect)

Add another layer to intensify or darken - but because they are all calthan based they work pretty well together (I wouldn't use all of these on the same model though). The commissar I did with very dark leather coat was khemri brown repeatedly washed by badab black - only basic highlights were needed too.

Hope this ramble helps!

Laney Very Happy

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Last edited by Laney on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:55 am

Good tips Laney! It amazes me how you come up with those weird color combos. Smile

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
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Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:22 pm

ok here is a test fig. Still looks arse but I did as mord said painted by numbers. I inked the Robes with purple ink every thing else got black wash again. I used the base coat to then highlight all of the armour grey, the robes purple, and leather brown. still need to re-ink the face. and pick out the green on the shoulder pads. It looks better here then the photos suggests.






LGW
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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:57 pm

That I find so much better! The cloak / duster is way better with good shadows Smile

Way to improve !
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:15 pm

LOL

didn't think the robes came out that well.
The pics make him look worse then he does I like how it has come out when I have him in my hand and looking at him, but looking at the pics makes him look BAD.....

Will do some more dry brushing soon.... got 2 sick kids and a sick wife to deal with and a over excited puppy who wants to run around alot....

Cheers
LGW

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:41 pm

Screw you LGW! The robes look AWESOME! Yes... you could improve it... but then you are aiming for Laney or DeafNala level. Don't get greedy! HAHAH!

You think the model look like "arse"... because the illusion is NOT complete. Your brain is not fooled and it resists the change. It is OK! Means you are hard to please (I will ask Lady Grey... HA!) You are ready for the 2nd part. POLISH.

If you look at the model... you have some purple 'out of the lines'... look at the 1st pic. The Holster. You see purple bleeding on it and your brain focus on it. It says "that is not real... this is crap!" Take black and paint the gun and later drybrush LIGHTLY with metal. Then take plain brown leather and paint the WHOLE holster.... careful with the gun! Paint the skull white (or bone white). Retouch the holster as needed. Wash the holster and skull LIGHTLY with brown. Tada!!!

Your brain will NOT give up... it will find other inconsistencies. For example... the chin strap on the helmet. Hell, it will focus on that horrible mold mark on the helmet (can't miss it on pic #2)

The Purity seal in the back... drybrush red on the wax and white on the paper. Too much wash.

Paint the face flesh... straight flesh. Then Wash brown (LIGHTLY). The trick is to keep 'between the lines"... like in the coloring books! HA!

This is a TEST model... it will take time to develop new techniques. SO FAR... you are doing great! Wink

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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:44 pm

ok give me 20 minutes to have ago at fixing those mistakes then I'll re post the test guy.


LGW
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:47 pm

ok round 2






LGW
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:50 am

Hehehe... pic by pic...


MUCH BETTER! It took me a while to pin-point the fixes on the holster. See? My brain skipped it, because it was correct! The belt was a nice addition... it breaks the model.. no more sea-of-purple! My eye diverted to the Shoulder Pad and the 'beard'. I think you need to file that blotch on the Pad. Looks weird. I know (or expect) that the 'beard' is actually the chin-strap of the helmet and my brain is complaining. The 'ghost face' does not help. Once you paint the flesh on the face it will be better. If you want a beard, use some GS. It is easy to make hair and fur. THEN paint the face flesh and LIGHTLY wash brown... then highlight (drybrush) with flesh. There is a BLOTCH of grey near one of the feet... just like the holster, you need to fix it.



The model looks great! Again, I ignored the holster... upon closer examination I noticed you painted the line and the gun looks VERY good! My brain is complaining about the stupid mold line. File it off!!!! Hehheeh



This angle looks great! No mold line and no face to be distracted. The belt REALLY does it for me... breaks the model (it has a waist!) The Shoulder pad has something... if it is a purity seal, go ahead and do the same you did to the ones on the back. They look MUCH better (don't touch 'em... they are BETTER!!!)



AHHH!!! FREAKING MOLD LINE ON THE HELMET!! Is like the whole model is a mold line! Hehehehe... get rid of it. I think you should paint the shoulder pad green and highlight it red... or gold. I think red would make a good contrast. It will break the arms... just like what you did with the belt.


The base is fine... simple is good. If you have static grass, a clump could do it... but is not critical!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:41 am

The second go is a clear improvement in the areas Mord pointed out - so good job on that! I disagree with him about the face though- think it is one of the better areas of the model - a tallarn flesh highlight (a light stroke on all the obvious high areas, with little paint on the brush) would improve it.

On the face try OVERBRUSHING...
Drybrushing will work but leave the face 'dusty'.


TECHNIQUE:
Instead, load a normal brush (detail if you've got it) with paint (and water - a dip in the pot is enough).
Then gently remove the excess paint back into the pot (not like drybrushing where there is almost no paint left), leaving the brush still just 'wet'.
Lightly run the flat of the brush over the raised edge of the face and it will naturally pick up the highlights.

You may get some overspill onto the grey helmet, because it is 'deeper' in the model - you may need to re-highlight the grey.


The mould line needs sorting - it will take the whole model a step up from toy to model IG.

Good to see the detail being picked out (bullets, purity seals etc) - the helmet eagle would look good in silver with a light black wash. The edge of the base could be finished in a complementary grey (it will help to finish the whole model).

Cheers Laney

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Lord GreyWolf



Posts : 2218
Join date : 2010-02-19
Age : 40
Location : Te Aroha, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:10 am

so how do I fix up the chin strap?

it starting to bug me now........

the helmet is going to be redone anyway as I have removed the mold lines.

Cheers
LGW


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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:38 am

For the chin strap, I would go over it with the light brown you used for the belt, leaving the darker brown in the recesses (this is the key bit) - this will give it depth - a dark brown wash e.g. devlan mud (preferable to black - but that would work too) will then bring it all together.

I would probably do the cheek pads of the helmet in grey - so the chin strap is less 'beardy'.

Hope this helps
Laney Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: IG Squad [Yet to be Named]    Today at 6:10 am

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