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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: new IG cadian list assistance   Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:58 pm

Hey guys

im thinking of doing an imperial gaurd squadron but i
havent got the slightest clue where to start, i collect chaos so i dont
have an imperial guard collection of mini's so i dont want to go out and
buy a bunch of minis and not use them because im at college and i cant
afford to do that

so i was wandering i would like to do a list
what focuses on heavy ranged combat, very minimal melee, and trying to
keep the numbers down trying to go for an elitist feel, any ideas
fellas, any examples what i could then expand on would be much much
appreciated

cheers fellas

Danny

ps. i put this in the wrong section by accident before but im moving it, sorry for any problems there
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Narcissus



Posts : 973
Join date : 2010-10-15
Location : Vancouver, BC

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:31 pm

Hey Danny,
Welcome to DS!

What I like to do when I plan a list is to plan what I will want for my initial squad creation and plan the weapons and units that I expect to have in my late campaign squad. So I will try to think about if I want my captain to carry a powerfist or a power sword at the end of the campaign and then model it to fit that.

It is good to model units with the weapons you plan for them to have, but the degree to which you do this is your own choice. For example, initially my recruits might carry autoguns and then I might plan for them to carry lasguns later on. Just model lasguns. No need to have two sets of models (unless you want to!, but you said you want to minimize numbers). Generally, I try to model each model with the type of weapon they carry. So if my recruit will have a pistol and close combat weapon, I will try to model that. Recruits with rifle sized weapons get those, heavy weapons I model the correct weapon, etc. This will help your opponent know what type of unit a recruit is.

There are lots of list questions posted on these forums as well that make a good start.

For starters, it is a good idea to take the maximum officers you can initially as this increases your income.

As your list evolves you will usually want the maximum number of specialists in your squad. Flamers and heavy stubbers are both very popular (although you cannot get a heavy stubber in initial recruitment).

When building your squad it is good to take the maximum officers and then give them pretty basic equipment. They can pass it to recruits as you get better equipment. Recruits get just basic equipment at first (maybe an autogun).

Post a list up here and we can help with specific critiques!
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:39 pm

Thanks man

ill get working on a list and post it tomorow to see what you guys think then we can work from there Smile


=========================


captain - 55
lasgun - 29
helmet - 17
mesh armour - 18 119 points

lieutenant - 42
lasgun - 29
helmet - 17
mesh armour - 18 106 points

lieutenant - 42
lasgun - 29
helmet - 17
mesh armour - 18 106 points

sergeant - 36
lasgun - 29
helmet - 17
mesh armour - 18 100 points

sergeant - 36
lasgun - 29
helmet - 17
mesh armour - 18 100 points

field medic - 32
las pistol - 27
helmet - 17
mesh armour - 18 94 points

heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27
mesh armour - 18
helmet - 17 98 points

723 points

think i might be overlasing it a little bit, i just distain melee, and i feel if my gaurd is going into melee its going to lose no matter what its against in the begginings of the campaign, so kitting them out with lasguns would be the better option

what are your thoughts on how i could change it

thanks

Danny


Last edited by Mordheimer on Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Please, avoid Double Posting.)
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Narcissus



Posts : 973
Join date : 2010-10-15
Location : Vancouver, BC

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:56 am

I know the first thing everyone will chime in with is that it is not worth including armour on your recruits and officers for the first few games. Right now your list needs more recruits to be effective.

I would remove the mesh armour and helmet from everyone except the captain (and maybe even him). Remember that you either take an armour save or a cover save. If you are planning to primarily shoot then try to keep your unarmoured recruits in cover. 18 credits for mesh can almost buy you another recruit.

I'd give the medic a pistol only. You want to keep him alive, so maybe even no gear and just hide him.

Hire more recruits. Give them some guns or even just a club. I'd keep the officers with lasguns as you can always pass them on to recruits later on.

Biggest thing is though to increase the number of recruits.
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Lazi



Posts : 210
Join date : 2011-02-03
Age : 28
Location : Prague, Czech Republic

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:52 am

Hey and welcome Smile

I started IG squad too and got a lot of contructive criticism. My squad was not that different from yours, so maybe you might check the thread (Breevan 22nd) and read the comments bellow (the first list is no longer there, as I edited it after redesigning my squad).

And to the shopping part: I think you can buy Cadian Shock Troops and Cadian Command Squad if you are going for Cadians or Jenkalans (plus it's good start for converting anything else) or their Catachans (Catachan Jungle Fighters and Catachan Command Squad). These kits have practically everything you need and offer lots of opportunities for conversions (IMO). Combination of basic and command kit can bring you 15 guys easily, plus there will be some bodies and lots of heads and arms (so you can sculpt legs, or get them from some bitzbox and make another few). You can also think of buying "Battleforce" kit - you get 20 "basic guys", 5 command guys plus 3 heavy weapon teams and even a walker - can be converted to interesting piece of terrain for example. Battleforce will offer you even more possibilities for conversions...
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ClausLars



Posts : 177
Join date : 2011-01-23
Location : Connecticut, USA

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:24 am

You missed your Captain's two biggest perks at start up. First, all the gear you buy for your captain is half price. He must be able to use everything you buy him (so he can't pick up two sets of armor) and none of the gear may be passed to another fighter until after the first game.

Second, he can start with one item above the normal rare limit of 5, at a limit of rare 7. This follows the same restrictions as above, but you must pay full price for this item.

Wanting to go for an elite feel at start up is also something that you will have difficulty managing. In fact, the game is specifically designed to make the starting squads (somewhat) crippled. Your squad BECOMES elite, they don't start that way.

I agree with the other comments you need recruits to protect your officers. There have been several IG lists posted in the last month or so which will be a great place to look for ideas and see other suggestions. Most will include some melee (especially on the sergeants) but you don't need to be locked into that if you don't want it.
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:56 am

captain - 55 +100 jenkala option
hellgun - 28 102
club - 5

lieutenant - 42
lasgun - 29 76
club - 5

lieutenant - 42
lasgun - 29 76
club - 5

sergeant - 36 70
lasgun - 29
club - 5

sergeant - 36 70
lasgun - 29

field medic - 32 59
las pistol - 27


heavy weapons - 36 63
flamer - 27


heavy weapons - 36 63
flamer - 27


infantryman - 25 59
lasgun - 29
club - 5

infantryman - 25 59
lasgun - 29
club - 5

infantryman - 25 59
lasgun - 29
club -5


748

i looked at the jenkalas fluff and it really interested me so i went for that option, i put more recruits in there to fill them out a little, got rid of the armour and gave the majority of people a melee weapon

thoughts would be much appreciated

cheers
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:52 am

My only suggestion (if you want elite - then go for it - the mesh armour might just work for you) is that you can take hired guns at initial recruitment. Not many people do, because of the upkeep - but you can have some very strong fighters early on e.g. Jenkala Sniper, Commissar etc. I built a rogue trader crew (based on I.R.) using this premise. As most of my campaigns have not run for more than 10 games this has worked - however this may not be a tactic for the long haul.


EDIT: Actually I have a second suggestion (this one has been beaten into me in the past)... Ditch the lasguns and get autoguns - put that cash into something else. Lasguns only help you against armour and unless you are playing another elite builder like yourself it will not have any positive in game effect compared to the autogun.


Just a thought

Laney:D

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:35 am

think i might have made an error with my calculations somewhere on my previous list
but in any case heres my updated one

captain - 55 +100 jenkala option
hellgun - 28
club - 5 88

lieutenant - 42
autogun - 22
club - 5 69

lieutenant - 42
autogun - 22
club - 5 69

sergeant - 36
autogun - 22
club - 5 63

sergeant - 36
autogun - 22
club - 5 63

field medic - 32
autopistol - 15
club - 5 52

heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27
club - 5 68

heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27
club - 5 68

infantryman - 25
autogun - 22
club - 5 52

infantryman - 25
autogun - 22
club - 5 52


744




any comments would be appreciated cheers guys Smile
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Lazi



Posts : 210
Join date : 2011-02-03
Age : 28
Location : Prague, Czech Republic

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:15 pm

Perhaps you might think about making the second HWS heavy weapon specialized (instead of flamer) and give him autogun as well (and buy him a stubber asap). Although I find two flamers quite seducing option Smile BURN HERETIC! Very Happy
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:28 pm

Lazi wrote:
Perhaps you might think about making the second HWS heavy weapon specialized (instead of flamer) and give him autogun as well (and buy him a stubber asap). Although I find two flamers quite seducing option Smile BURN HERETIC! Very Happy

english seems perfect dude, and as do i, i like the idea of like a short range firefight, taking advantage of corners and alleys and things, rather than the big guns going DAKKADAKKA, any other ideas for what i could do?
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ClausLars



Posts : 177
Join date : 2011-01-23
Location : Connecticut, USA

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:39 pm

Lazi wrote:
Perhaps you might think about making the second HWS heavy weapon specialized (instead of flamer) and give him autogun as well (and buy him a stubber asap). Although I find two flamers quite seducing option Smile BURN HERETIC! Very Happy

I agree with starting with considering starting with both HWS, but note he can't use an autogun...grumble I dun like that rule.
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Lazi



Posts : 210
Join date : 2011-02-03
Age : 28
Location : Prague, Czech Republic

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:51 pm

ClausLars wrote:

I agree with starting with considering starting with both HWS, but note he can't use an autogun...grumble I dun like that rule.

What rule are you talking about? I don't see any rule to forbid it...
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:10 pm

Lazi wrote:
ClausLars wrote:

I agree with starting with considering starting with both HWS, but note he can't use an autogun...grumble I dun like that rule.

What rule are you talking about? I don't see any rule to forbid it...

it says they can use heavy weapons , template weapons, pistols combat knives, and any armour + wargear in the recruits subsection, and an autogun dosent come under any of those because its a rapid fire weapon
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Lazi



Posts : 210
Join date : 2011-02-03
Age : 28
Location : Prague, Czech Republic

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:13 pm

Oh, I must have missed that...
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Narcissus



Posts : 973
Join date : 2010-10-15
Location : Vancouver, BC

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:29 pm

I would consider trying to get some points and get helmet and armour for your captain. I know earlier I said to minimize armour, but you will want it soon for him anyways and you can get it at half price at recruitment. The list is looking pretty good now.

I kind of like two flamers in the early campaign. One can be taken down fairly easily. Two present a real threat. And they are fun to use!
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:49 pm

captain - 55 +100 jenkala option
hellgun - 28
club - 2 102
mesh armour - 9
helmet - 8

lieutenant - 42
autogun - 22
club - 5 69

lieutenant - 42
autogun - 22
club - 5 69

sergeant - 36
autogun - 22
club - 5 63

sergeant - 36
autogun - 22
club - 5 63

field medic - 32
autopistol - 15 47


heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27 63


heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27 63


infantryman - 25
autogun - 22
club - 5 52

infantryman - 25
autogun - 22
club - 5 52


743


heres my new list, given him some armour, anyone think of anymore updates for it?
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:07 pm

That's a very solid list you have there. (Goes and hides waiting for DoZer to find some fundamental flaw that I've missed). Jenkala are ace (my first ever squad) and two flamers is for winners! It's even better if you get one of them promoted to LGT and end up with three! (this was in the days before heavy stubber goodness).

Laney:D

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:20 pm

Laney wrote:
That's a very solid list you have there. (Goes and hides waiting for DoZer to find some fundamental flaw that I've missed). Jenkala are ace (my first ever squad) and two flamers is for winners! It's even better if you get one of them promoted to LGT and end up with three! (this was in the days before heavy stubber goodness).

Laney:D

yeah there will be something i have missed Just Kidding, would a heavy stubber be worth investing in later game?
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:47 pm

While I love the idea of burning enemy forces, I think the heavy stubber is a definite future investment (note: the HWS with flamer skill can't use a heavy stubber - you need heavy weapon skill - see below).

One option is to use a HWS with a grenade launcher (with it's free grenade) and use that (or not) in game one, then sell the weapon back to gain back half the credits (the rest is in the grenade you keep/have used) and then upgrade (assuming rarity rolls go your way) to the heavy stubber for game 2. This is pure manipulation and . However, it prevents you having a HWS running around with an autopistol for a game (and is theoretically 'free').

Cheers Laney:D

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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ClausLars



Posts : 177
Join date : 2011-01-23
Location : Connecticut, USA

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 pm

levo56 wrote:
Lazi wrote:
ClausLars wrote:

I agree with starting with considering starting with both HWS, but note he can't use an autogun...grumble I dun like that rule.

What rule are you talking about? I don't see any rule to forbid it...

it says they can use heavy weapons , template weapons, pistols combat knives, and any armour + wargear in the recruits subsection, and an autogun dosent come under any of those because its a rapid fire weapon

That's the rule I'm referring to, their allowed equipment. Since an Rapid Fire weapons aren't on that list, they can't use them. I know there is a balance to maintained between fluff and game balance, but the idea that a guy trained in a specialty weapon, never learned to use the lower tier weapons in basic training seems off to me.
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skavenslayer



Posts : 224
Join date : 2009-08-18
Age : 33
Location : Kokkedal, Denmark

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:01 am

Im one of those that think armor at start-up is not the greatest idea, I like more models better...

I like your last list the best, very close to how I would start Jenkela..
A lot of my ifeas are posted in Lazi´s, Arachas ( http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2322-3rd-semperian-vanguard ) and ofc my own ( http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2373-skavenslayers-cadian ), I think reading these can give some good insperation

Here are my thoughts on your squad:

captain - 55 +100 jenkala option
hellgun - 28
club - 2 102
mesh armour - 9 (you got 3 credit left over and a flak jacket only costs 1 credit more then the mesh)
helmet - 8
-I would try go get the credit for a Reflex Scope, its only 11 credit at start-up (maby drop the clubs from the Lieutaents or Infrantrymen)

Other then that I like the Squad.

About buying, my plan is to get the Battlion box, as allready suggested.

-Skavenslayer
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Mordheimer



Posts : 9756
Join date : 2009-07-12
Age : 43
Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:47 am

Any updated list for me to mess? Just Kidding

_________________
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Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:52 am

i do indeed brother!

captain - 55 +100 jenkala option
hellgun - 28
club - 2 114
flack jacket - 10
helmet - 8
reflex scope - 11

lieutenant - 42
autogun - 22
64

lieutenant - 42
autogun - 22
64

sergeant - 36
autogun - 22
club - 5 63

sergeant - 36
autogun - 22
club - 5 63

field medic - 32
autopistol - 15 47


heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27 63


heavy weapons - 36
flamer - 27 63


infantryman - 25
autogun - 22
club - 5 52

infantryman - 25
autogun - 22
club - 5 52


745


go nuts Just Kidding
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levo56



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 22
Location : Chesterfield, England

PostSubject: Re: new IG cadian list assistance   Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:18 pm

this got me thinking actually, are grenade launchers worth taking and are they any good?

sorry for double posting there :S

Danny
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