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 A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:45 pm

First up is I'm planning to buy these models:



Then I plan on doing some minor conversion to them, maybe even have a go at some amusing stuff in there too.
Next question is do you guys think it would be worth buying two packs of these (aka get 8 models) or would they all look too similar without major(ish) conversions?

Then onto the other questions, firstly, what size base are we meant to be using in Death Squads? I can't see it anywhere on a brief glimpse through the core rulebook. I ask this because for the first time ever I'm going to give my models some nice looking bases, I've never even attempted it before and I don't really know how, but I thought getting the right size bases would be a start Smile
Next, how do you guys usually do your bases? Do I just want to get some pebbles and such from the garden, add a bit of salt/sand and then paint it, or if I want a really nice looking base am I going to need to get in more materials like foamcore, grating stuff, spare bitz (which I am completely lacking in)?

Finally, what tools do people use for modelling? I have small small files, a clay shaper, some putty stuff (I have never been able to use it on a model before though because I am awful at it) and some clippers. Is it worth getting a mini saw thing, a vice for cutting and drilling? (I've never attempted pinning before either so this project is going to be learning how to do all the modelling basics it seems) Or any other tools which might be useful.

Sorry if all these questions are basic, inane or answered elsewhere, but with all you guys here, I figured may as well go straight to the pros for my modelling advice since everything here is what has inspired me to try all this.

Thanks in advance everyone who answers Smile


Last edited by dumdeedum on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:02 am

Those models are really cool dumdeedum. I think they will look really good. With some conversions you could definitely get two sets. Are they metal models? Metal is definitely a bit trickier to convert.

I make bases using mostly sand and scraps of wood, plastic and wire. I don't buy much specifically for bases. If you are able to, get some sand from a playground or a beach or something. You only need a tiny bit. I also bought some medium ballast or coarse ballast from a model store (it is just a larger size of sand) for some variety. I then glue bits of wood, cork, and plasticard to create some variety in the bases. I will make a little tutorial on how I do mine soon. I really enjoy making bases.
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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:04 am

PS-The list of tools you have sounds pretty good. Definitely get a good exacto/modelling knife if you don't have one yet.

The best thing to do is to just jump right in and try different things. Post up your questions as you go and we can try to help you with what we can.
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Komfritten



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:39 am

My way is somwhat similar (as I adapted a lot from Narc). I glue the base with pva glue (with a little water added to it), and have a tiny box with sand from a playground, with lots of different sizes of sand / stones.

Then i just rustle the mini around (the base part) in the mix, and voilá! nice base!

Heres one of my GK's with the most simple base:



And my servitor with a little added features:



And a sniper, where I had to elevate him to make place for his cape:



Hope it helps inspiration wise. Also look through Narc's thread here to see the art-section Wink
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Colonel Prius



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:29 am

Base size is the standard 25mm for regular fighters.
I have the same tools you have, plus a recently bought small modeling drill with different drillbits, which I am very happy with and is ideal for drilling out barrels and if you want/need to do some pinning.
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:30 am


Finally, what tools do people use for modelling? I have small small files, a clay shaper, some putty stuff (I have never been able to use it on a model before though because I am awful at it) and some clippers. Is it worth getting a mini saw thing, a vice for cutting and drilling? (I've never attempted pinning before either so this project is going to be learning how to do all the modelling basics it seems) Or any other tools which might be useful.

Sorry if all these questions are basic, inane or answered elsewhere, but with all you guys here, I figured may as well go straight to the pros for my modelling advice since everything here is what has inspired me to try all this.

Thanks in advance everyone who answers Smile[/quote]

NICE FIND!!!

Those models are very cool, dumdeedum! To try and answer some questions.
  • Buy them all!!! You can't NEVER have too many models. Sorry... I'm a plastic-crack addict... so more models is good! Just Kidding Depends on price. How much are they? A link would be nice. Seriously... depends on what you want them for (conversions). Eight models are cool... but how would you fit 8 Fighters in a Squad? If those are your Officers, then 8 is PLENTY (you can't have more than 6... but your Recruits would looks very different. A challenge indeed!
  • The standard base size is 25mm. On TLRB is on the 'Large Target' area... you are right, should be on the introduction (under models!) Just Kidding - ADDED!
  • You can base in two ways; one is pre-made and other from scratch. You can find pre-made (casted) bases, which have 'terrain' that you just need to paint. Excellent for consistency (like having similar 'floor') and other features (standing on 'lava fields'). The other alternative is to scratch build... just like building terrain. It is an art... but NOT hard! There is NO need for expensive stuff. First, please let us know what you want, and I'm sure we can come up with a simple (and almost free) way for you to venture. WARNING... building bases IS addictive! You may feel the urge to base all your models from now on!
  • PIN VICE! That mini-drill will be your buddy for life! Pinning is NOT hard... we will help you!
  • You will need metal paper clips! They are great for pinning... or you could buy bronze rods (expensive). You could also use metal staples! They are cheap (or free from the office) and you use either single or double... nice for pinning small stuff!
  • From the basic stuff to base (in separate bags/containers)... FINE sand, coarse sand, tiny rocks. Around 2 ounces of each would last you a life time! Just Kidding

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:57 am

Okie dokie, well here is the link to the Hazmats.

They are about £12 at the moment for 4 due to a 20% off everything deal they've got going and £3 a model isn't bad in my opinion.

I already have a pin vice I have just remembered with a 1mm drill bit, but I've always had trouble using it as it requires 2 hands and my models keep moving underneath it, so how do people gwet around that? Buy a vice to hold the models still or is there an easier, cheaper way?

The problem with basing is I don't know what I want to do yet, I want all 4/8 of them to have similar bases but I can't decide on a theme for it yet. Swampy would be cool but I'd need to get that acrylic water stuff and some skill first.

Sorry for being a bit wishywashy, theres so many things I could do that I can't pick anything yet :s

What kind of basing do you guys reckon would fit with the hazmat theme? Just a bit of normal foliage?

Lastly, I hadn't quite thought of a way to include them in a squad, nor have I decided which squad they would even be a part of. IG or IR is basically what I'm stuck with, I don't think Arbites would ever be in that getup.

Haha, so many definite answers from me... Smile
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:27 am

I found you a GREAT video on pining (excellent use of the Pin Vice) for you to watch!


As you see, you don't need a vice to hold the model. It is cheaper AND easier! Yo could use a vice to grasp the model... but you need to protect the model. I use the same pin-vise on the video. You could damage it (scratch) or even squish it. How do I know? Experience is a biatch! Just Kidding


Now... what is the theme of your Squad? What are you trying to do? This is important. It is nice to take your time... but it is critical you 'set' on a concept. Think of basing like painting... you choose the color scheme and then you do a test. If you decide to go for blue uniforms with NMM chrome highlights, you don't suddenly change to pink with purple dry-brushing because you change your mind, eh? If you decide to go for 'snow' basing, you don't go and try to change it to 'lava'. They require different materials and techniques. Not hard, but different.

Hmmm... what kind of Squad could soldiers in hazmats be? I say Imperial Renegades! You can have your Officers in 'hazmats' protected from the elements and a bunch of 'poisoned' people... great for conversions. To me, the 'problem' is that the models with hazmats don't seem to have armor... so that could be part of the conversion. May be some kind of "Ohhh crap... radiation! Quick, protect yourselves... or die!" So the 'plastic' suit could be covered in 'kevlar plates'. Safety yellow for Recruits and Safety Blue for Officers... hehehehe...

In terms of basing, you do NOT need to invest in 'acrylic water stuff' (Water Effects) is you want to make SMALL puddles of toxic water. If you want to make the soldier wade on the liquid... that is a different story. But for a small puddle, you could leave the area unpainted and put some plastic glue. That thing MELTS plastic, so the surface will smooth out... kindda glossy too! To simulate bubbles, I cut some small plastic bead balls in half and glue them there. I poured some glue over the ball, and it smooth out. You can paint the area as normal, and finish the area with GLOSS Finish for that wet look. If I find the base (it is a Tyranid objective marker), I post a pic.

Basing? I would go for an apocalyptic look... dark earth with metal (rusted) scraps and the occasional glowing (Scorpion Green!!!) puddle of radioactive toxic ooze! You get to practice rust in a small scale AND you even could try Out Source Lighting (OSL) with the toxic puddles. Some 'scourged' static grass would work.


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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:30 pm

I'm really tempted to go for 12 of these guys now, that will just about make a starting squad and I can colour code them to various degrees to denote status amongst the group, swap around some weapons and poses, and hopefully they will look more like individuals than the faceless beings that they are.

I think I will be ordering tonight/tomorrow so I will wait and see whether I get 4, 8 or 12 of them :s
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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:52 am

Sorry i've been absent for a while, havn't even got round to checking my emails in a week :s

OK well I realised how tight I was for money just before I ordered so I only got 4 of the hazmat guys in the end plus a knife and saw so i always have the extra options for converting.

They have also finally arrived, and they look good, the only problem is they seem a tad small, I don't know whether it because they are a bit under 28mm or whether my other models are just a bit larger than 28mm scale. So that brings up my first thought, since this is meant to be a big modelling project for me I might try and add a mm or two to the models around the hip or something so they dont seem quite so small compared to my other models.

I also fancy changing up their poses and weaponry a little, definetly want one of them to have a flamer (though having no flamer is a slight impedement on that). Have been contemplating a few other changes a bit but since I have almost exactly 0 bits, everything I make is going to have to be scratch built. So I'm going to keep on needing advice as I go along.

Will put some (bad) pictures up on monday probably so you can see exactly what I have to work with. I'm looking forwards to starting Smile
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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:12 pm

GW models are pretty huge for 28mm size (I believe they call it 28mm heroic scale...). I think they would be fine as is if you have all models in the same scale in the squad. Sometimes I use basing to make a smaller model appear larger: just elevate the model a bit on something on the base.
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:06 pm

I agree with Narcissus... give your short models some 'heels'! Take some balsa wood and make a base for your base... hehehe... put it on top and put the model in top. Those few mm would make the right height illusion.

Before you start converting... can you please post a pic of your model besides an IG on one side and a Space Marine on the other? Your hazmat guy is what the IGs are supposed to be like (correct size-proportions) and I would like to see how bad the IG really are, and how the SM should actually look. Wink

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Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:58 pm

I just arrived at uni and left the majority of my models at home but I may be heading home at some point this week so can grab a model or two and take a couple of pictures for you. Will also have a rummage to see if I can find some bits, I must have bought a model with a flamer at some point in my life...

I'll also definitely take the advice about the raised base, sounds a hell of alot easier than the scaling up I thought I'd have to do.

EDIT: Probably one of the worst photos ever, my camera on my phone is truly shoddy but you should get the proportions from it:



No idea how to resize it either :s
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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:31 pm

I didnt think it was worth taking a pic with my phone because the last one was so shoddy, but I have completed my first bit of sculpting and even though it's just a tiny bit I'm quite proud of it.

It is the upper right guy from the picture in my first picture (the guy with the upraised fist) and what I did was cut off the fist arm, then remove the top half of that arm (above the elbow) and the index finger. I then curled the other fingers a little (don't have any pliers so cant curl them any further) and added a pointing index finger with what ever putty i have (cant remember what it is). I then reattached the arm via an upper arm that i sculpted to make it look like he is telling people to 'ssshhh!'. I soon plan on repositioning his other arm so that his arm is almost straight and the gun is pointing at the floor. From there I plan to make the base and paint the model so it looks like he has shot the floor and then is telling everyone else to be quiet.

So it should be slightly comedic/lame looking and it gives me the opportunity to do lots of stuff with him including small amounts of source lighting (glowing hot barrel) and an interesting (ish) base.

Sorry there is no pictures yet :s need to get me a camera at some point.

And also, how would you guys do the things I'm planning on doing? Or what would you do differently concept wise? Any help and advice is welcome and probably needed. Thanks Smile
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:33 am

COOL! You can still take pics from your camera phone, but you need GOOD light! It is weird, but the higher the resolution of the camera and the less light make a combination for REALLY granular pictures. Either take the pics in sunlight (outside) or take two lapms and pose each at 45o angle (front-corner towards the opposite back-corner) to minimize shadows. After you are done, make sure you clean the pics with Picassa (it is FREEWARE!) You will get great pics.

I can't wait to see the conversions!!!

PS: Cheap raising trick? Glue two bases together and then smooth the edge with green stuff. Just Kidding

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:26 pm

Probably a bit of a basic question, and going back a bit, but I plan on doing some small toxic puddles on my bases and you said to use plastic glue, what cheapish brands would people recomend? Also can I get it cheap anywhere like amazon, I'm ordering a few cheap modelling supplies like wire, foamboard and plasticard and though I may aswell get everything in one go.

I'll also try taking a picture for you guys tomorrow though I don't know if itl get good results at all.
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:00 pm

For plastic glue (if you mean liquid poly types) I always use Humbrol precision (comes in a yellow bottle with a fat metal 'needle') - I doesn't dispense too much glue at once, meaning you don't get the overspill you can have from GW and the cheaper tubes and it seems to last for ages (but I always seem to be running out of glues).

Laney:D

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:34 pm

Am slightly drunk but here goes:

Well I assume Mord meant liquid poly type glues when he was giving advice for small liquid puddles, though im not 100% sure myself which is part of why I asked. And another question (I seem to be absolutely full of them don't I?), does anyone have any advice on what I should use for a pipe/pipes on a base? I've seen a few around, probably on here since I spend most of my online time here, but I have no idea what I have lying around that I could use for it, so I assume I'd need to buy some stuff.

This is basically because I intend my base to have a small toxic puddle on it plus some pipes issuing said toxic goo, the pipe probbaly having a few bullet holes in it from my guys 'accidental gunshots' and then either a metal or dirt floor for the rest, I'm not quite sure which yet.

This is slightly ambitious for me, which is why I want as much advice as I can get as I would really like my first proper conversion to be close to a success. So thanks for any advice, and sorry for any bad writing or anything else because of my alcohol abuse :s
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Narcissus



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:09 am

I added a bit of toxic sludge coming out of pipes on some of my bases using greenstuff. I just shaped it into the shape I wanted, let it set, and painted it with slimy colours. It looks alright. I am thinking about try some experiments to get a nice water effect on bases too.
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:01 am

I suppose some good advice would be to become a scavenger of gubbins. I tend to magpie bits of plastic, screws, tubing etc from wherever it presents itself that look like they might be valuable for basing later. If you need tubing straight away then I'd keep a small stock of plasticcard and conduit (DIY stores are great for stuff like this - but not as cheap as you might think). Basically, build up a box of stuff (Christmas present packaging always presents lots of useful things - especially kiddies toys).

Hope this helps

Laney:D

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dumdeedum



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PostSubject: Re: A new modelling project for me and a few semi-related questions   Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:30 pm

Sorry I havn't really been on the forum at all recently, I've just finished my 4th of 6 exams, with my final one being on friday. So come monday, if im sober enough, I'll be back in action on here with (hopefully) updates on this modelling project, and of course proofreading, and being amazed by the quality of everyones models.

Back to the case at hand, even though I havn't had much chance for modelling itself, I have managed to order some stuff for modelling, so i now have a small amount of plasticard, plastic tubes, brass wire, foamcore, plastic glue, and some meshy stuff.

As for the model I'm working on, I cut off the left arm, repositioned it and then made it as if he is sticking his index finger up in a 'ssssh' -ing action. Then today i cut off the other arm and went about positioning it so that he is hiding his gun behind him, but in the process i managed to snap off the index finger, and butchered the arm a bit and broke off the stock of the gun Sad so I have alot of repairwork to do.

Then once thats done I'm going to have to come up with ideas on how to do the base, does anyone know where I can find pictures of model bases with sewage pipes or something like that? My current idea is to have a pipe or two on the base leaking some nasty liquid, maybe a puddle or two as well and I'm not sure what the rest of the base is going to be; metal or stone or gravel or something.

Sorry I don't have a picture, my camera on my phone is truly pathetic Sad
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