New and mixed feelings about Death Squads

Hi,
I am new to this site, because I was forced to register to read the rules for DS. I am disappointed at that. From Specialist Games I can DL most rules ther without registering, and here, for what use I wonder?
But OK, I have the choice to register or not, and I did. I have DL the rules and skimmed them. At first glance it's Necromunda. I dont play Mordheim, I had the impression the basic for DS was Mordheim, but it looks like the mechanics are taken almost completely from Necro. If this is indeed so, then why would I want to learn DS rules? I have played Necro with all kinds of other settings: Eldar, Orks, Spacemarines, Svouts, you name it.
So, why DS and not stick to Necro?

Frehansje

Hello and Welcome

That is our choice to require the registration process and yes Specialist Games does not do that but we are not Specialist Games. We enjoy SG but we are not them.

Unfortunately you are very mistaken as the gaming mechanics are not like Necromunda. There are some similiarities but a majority of the similiarities are with Mordheim but with a twist. I am the Answer MOD for Mordheim and Mordheimer is Mordheimer.com the 1st web site that had all the publications for Mordheim.

With that mentioned DS does not follow Necromunda rules in totality.

We do not have pinning, flesh wounds, and do not do the complicated excercises of WS + "x" to see who won HTH.

I would read the Mordheim rules and you will see what I mean.

With that, our "Charging" sequence is nothing like Necro or Mordheim.

The way you purchase equipment at the end of the game is Mordheimish and absolutely not connected to Necromunda. The income is based off the Mordheim principle as is the Officer and Recruit models. With that the list goes on and on.

Sorry you feel that way but after working on this for 1.75 years this is not Necromunda.

FreeHansje: WELCOME!!!

Although Da Bank already answered (right on the money, too!) I will also put my comments.

ON REGISTRATION
Once of the reason of why we require registration on the forum is that we release updates, and we would like to have everyone notified. Also, it is fun (for me...) to see how many people visit the site. The fact that we have 526 register members means that there are AT LEAST 526 around the world playing Death Squads. Isn't that COOL? For all I care, PLEASE feel free to setup a site and share TLRB with anyone, put it on torrents, rapid share, etc. Not only saves me some bandwidth, but it spreads the game. We just want to share.

We spend, collectively THOUSANDS of hours working on TLRB. Is it too much to ask that you take 30 seconds and register, so we get continued motivation to work? TLRB is free... we do NOT want money, or gifts... not even donations. We want YOU to have fun and share our love for skirmishes and 40k. If the worst part of getting a new skirmish game, in which YOUR opinion do matter and that you get direct access to Developers and Contributors AND you can even join the Team is to register to a forum... you got it made!

ON BEING NECROMUNDA PART 2
Hehehehe... give a whirl... you will be surprised how much it is NOT like Necromunda. You may conclude that it is Mordheim... but Mordheim players will tell you how different it is from Mordheim!

Death Squads is as much Necromunda or Mordheim as Pepsi is to Coca-Cola. Sure, but are carbonated cola soda-pops, but they are also VERY different. Death Squads is NOT Updated-Necromunda, nor Mordheim-in-Space. The mathematics behind are very robust... to the point that we do use hard math to get to all the numbers. Nothing is eye-balled (for long). There are hundreds of little hidden things (we call them Ninja Designs) that allow for certain things to be possible without the player knowing... like the changing of the Turn Sequence. Try it... it simulates Overwatch without all the -I-Will-Move-After-You-Move crap in a much simpler and realistic fashion.

Necromunda is a game about humans, locked in the confined (and I used the word lightly) space of a Hive. The gangs are humans, with human needs and human intentions. Death Squads has no time or place... you can play pre-heresy or current time... in any planet, city or spaceship... with just humans or aliens. The decision is left up to YOU, the player. Necromunda is a fraction of the 40k universe, based on 40k 2nd and 3rd edition. Death Squads is based on 5th Edition, but borrows heavy fluff elements from all version, from Rogue Trader to Dark Heresy.

Like Da Bank mentioned, takes much more elements from Mordheim, as that system was more robust than Necromunda (because it was newer)... and then we tackled the new issues and incompatibilities with scaling. If you put Orks in Necromunda, you break the system. Ash Wastes does not allow you to play in a balanced fashion... it is a good attempt to fit powerful units in a smaller (weaker) scale. We have made mathematical efforts to fit everyone FAIRLY... so normal humans (IG) can be competitive with super humans (Space Marines), yet they both 'feel' right.

Death Squads economy (in the upcoming release) has been re-tweaked for fairness and all units are cross-referenced. We followed a Mordheim principles, and re-did the math from the ground up.

The design on each Squad allows YOU (the player) to do whatever you want... yet it rewards playing the 'right'. For example, you can make your Orks shooty... get them Blastas and Big Shootas, put them in a rooftop and fire! But if you face the Jenkala's Urban Fighters, be prepared to be crushed like the fungi you are. Why? Because the Ork shooting skills are VERY bad (BS 2!) and their long range weapons weak... Orks are design (in 40k) to get close and personal... in your face WAAAGH! The Kroot Mercenaries are also Close Combat Specialists, but their advantage is in sneaking in for the kill (like a predator!) The Jenkala's are IG specialized in shooting and Urban Warfare, while the Mordians are the true master of shooting... as long as they are in formations! In Necromunda... pretty much all the gangs can be used in any way. It has an appeal, but to me (personally) it wears off rather quickly.

If you play Space Marines versus any gang... you KNOW who will win. There is no chance in hell the gangs can beat the Astartes. Why? Because Space Marines are in a 'different scale'. You put Eldars, and they spin around (dancing!) leaving the gangs in the dust... the equipment would need to be adjusted and so on.

We fixed issues with ammo (Necromunda's system bites IMHO) and Armor (Mordheim is a joke) as well as scaling and longevity of a campaign (Necro and Mordheim campaign of 15 games is too long... for the end of shelf is around 30!)


All in all, this is a VERY different system than Necromunda and Mordheim. We reached a maturity in which we can say the Death Squads it is its own system. Necro and Mordheim players will have a very shallow learning curve... just like Warhammer Fantasy players would find easy to play 40k... 40k is not Fantasy-in-Space. Adding Space Marines to Necromunda is not playing Necromunda.

Give the game a chance... I'm sure you will like it. If you feel more comfortable playing a modified version of Necromunda... go ahead. We are here to share something that we love, and think is what Kill-Team should had been... which DEFINITELY was not Necromunda! If you find something that maybe improved... PLEASE let us know. We WANT to hear from you.

Looking forward your adventures...

Wow guys, don't get your frills up! I'm not playing down what you have done, I can see there is a lot of loving work put into these rules. I still largely disagree with the 'VERY different' statement when compared with Necro, or Mordheim, which game I dont play and which rules I do not know about. I saw the differences, but that's not what I wish to go into.

My main beef is with the compulsory registration to have a look at the rules. I was interested, but to judge if it was for me, I HAVE to register. And no, having so many registrations does NOT mean so many ppl play DS; it only means that many ppl have registered.
I have looked at the rules and conclude this is not for me. I would have appreciated if I could have drawn that conclusion without registering. No matter it takes only 30 secs, it's another place were I have to leave an e-mail address.
So I wish you all good luck with DS, just consider not forcing ppl to register just to have a look at your rules. If ppl are interested, be sure they will register voluntarily.

I think registering for the rules makes sense...besides, not like the email addresses are going anywhere =]
All forums require registration as far as I know, registering helps involve you with the wider community & that helps you get to know other players and get a better grasp of the rules.

Definitely glad I registered for all the free advice on conversions etc! =]

Freehansje

Wow! I am not a frilly guy, trust me. LOL. You made statements and we responded. Sorry you took it that way as 99% of those registered are OK with it.
I reviewed our replies and the responses answered your statements in a respectable manner.

Best of luck!

Da Bank

I do agree that everyone that registers do not ends up playing ... as well as that many people who have TLRB got it from other means. If you see, the Forum can be seen by Guests. As one you could take some time and read (lurker!) what other people think, etc. Then, either register to get the rules OR look for copies of TLRB on the web. They are out there... you just have to siff through 25,600 for "TLRB pdf" in Google.

You can also make a 'disposable' email in Hotmail, get TLRB and move on with your life. It is our community... and while you do not need to participate (dfinetly OUR loss), we do appreciate people knocking on the door before just taking everything. It is our decision... slightly annoying? Yes. Inconvinient? No. Have the potential to include yourself in the creative process and join a bunch of people who actually LIKE the project. DEFINETLY!

Also, we are not frilled or upset. You asked, we answered. Necromunda and Mordheim are GREAT games... but if you try to modify them (or even adapt them) out of their original design, they break misserably. You can TRY all you want, but there is no chance in hell you can put Ogres in Mordheim, respect the fluff & capture their playability while remaining fair without changing the core rules. The same example applies to adding Space Marines to Necromunda. You CAN put a square peg into a round hole... but it won' fit nicely. We CAN change and adapt the core rules to fit all groups, units and army types... that is the advantage. Besides, it is the only true skirmish game in development (although I maybe wrong.)

All in all... come and join the community. After all, you already invested 30 seconds of your time to register! Read the rules... wait for the new release of v0.5.0 coming soon... then play it. You will see how different it is from Necromunda. Then post your battle reports and pictures... let's all share in your gaming adventures!