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 Help with Catachans, please!

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Kiwi



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Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 22
Location : Palmerston North, New Zealand

PostSubject: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed May 26, 2010 12:27 am

This is my first list for catachans. I will probably mostly be going up against mordians and we don't have much scenery.
Any comments, suggestions, tactics, tips you guys could give me would be much appreciated as I am fairly new to this.

Regional platoon= catachan jungle fighters 100

Captain 55
bolter: 29
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
sword: 9
Total=96

lieutenant 42
Auto gun: 29
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
auto pistol: 9
Total=63

lieutenant 42
Auto gun: 29
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
auto pistol: 9
Total=63

Sargent 55
bolter: 29
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
Total=56

Sargent 55
bolter: 29
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
Total=56

Medic 32
slugger: 21
Total=53

H/w guy 36
flamer: 20
combat knife: free
slugger: 21
Total=69

H/w guy 36
flamer: 20
combat knife: free
slugger: 21
Total=69

Infantryman 25
Autogun: 20
combat knife: free
Total=45

I think this should add up to 700 credits.
In particular I am wondering how best to equip my captain. Does any one have any alterations they would make?
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed May 26, 2010 8:17 am

Kiwi wrote:
This is my first list for catachans. I will probably mostly be going up against mordians and we don't have much scenery.
Any comments, suggestions, tactics, tips you guys could give me would be much appreciated as I am fairly new to this.

Regional platoon= catachan jungle fighters 100

Captain 55
bolter: 29
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
sword: 9
mesh armour: 9
Total=102

lieutenant 42
Lasgun 28
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
Total=70

lieutenant 42
Lasgun 28
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
Total=70

Sargent 36
Auto gun: 20
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
Total=56

Sargent 36
Auto gun: 20
catachan fang: free
combat knife: free
Total=56

Medic 32
Total=32

H/w guy 36
flamer: 20
combat knife: free
Total=56

H/w guy 36
flamer: 20
combat knife: free
Total=56

Infantryman 25
Autogun: 20
combat knife: free
Total=45

Infantryman 25
lasgun 28
combat knife: free
Total=53


I think this should add up to 696 credits.
In particular I am wondering how best to equip my captain. Does any one have any alterations they would make?

ok here is what i did:

  • added mesh armour to your Captain. The bolter is a good option it all depends on your build. my Captain has gone for the Hellpistol for his rare item as I'll be getting gunfighter skill for him and a second Hellpistol.
  • reduced the Autogun price to what it is in the TRLB V0.5.1b. Also swapped them over to the sergeant.
  • dropped the bolters off the sergeants as you can't get them for your squad as they have a rarity value greater then 5. changed them to Lasgun instead and gave those to your Lieutenants.
  • dropped the auto-pistol off the lieutenants as well they can use the combat knife instead.
  • dropped the slugga off your medic you don't need weapons on this guy keep him at the back of your squad away from harm.
  • also dropped the sluggas off the flamers. why have it if they get charged [besides being their own fault] they can use the combat knife.
  • added another guardsman with lasgun to your squad.


by doing this you now have another guardsman armed with a lasgun to the squad. you have some good ranged attack and close combat guys. you could drop the mesh armour off your captain [-9pts] change all three lasguns to auto-guns [-24pts] drop a flammer off and change to a grenade launcher [-6pts]. drop one of the lieutenants auto-guns off and change for auto-pistol [-7pts] this would give you: 46pts to spend. which would be another guardsmen with auto-gun.

The more minis you have the higher your break point is [eg when you have to take a route test.]

hope this helps....

Cheers
LGW


Last edited by Lord GreyWolf on Wed May 26, 2010 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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way-of-the-warrior



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed May 26, 2010 11:14 am

ill just say the first unit adds up to 93 29 +55 = 84 + 9 = 93
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The ISH



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Location : Frozen Wastelands

PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed May 26, 2010 11:18 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as everyone starts play with an autopistol and combat knife, their isn't much point in arming your Medic at the start. By all means, give him a better pistol as the campaign moves on, it can only help (if he should get caught in combat).
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed May 26, 2010 3:33 pm

way-of-the-warrior wrote:
ill just say the first unit adds up to 93 29 +55 = 84 + 9 = 93

55+29+9+9=102

the mesh armour and the sword are both 9pts each.... got to stop posting at 2am... to many mistakes.... LOL

Cheers
LGW
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way-of-the-warrior



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed May 26, 2010 5:03 pm

yh i was doing it for kiwis unit 1 but if i did yours it would be 102 due to the added 9
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Kiwi



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Thu May 27, 2010 12:18 am

Thanks guys,
@ LGW a big thanks for your help, you picked up some things I hadn't noticed.

The lieutenants were meant to be equipped with auto guns not bolters, sorry about that that's what happens when I type things up fast Embarassed .

I will definately give my captain mesh armour (I forgot that AP is the only thing that affects armour), although you did say
Quote :
a rarity value greater then 5
so does that mean I could give him a helmet or shield?

I'm not sure about using lasguns, correct me if I'm wrong but, they seem quite expensive compared to auto guns for only AP 6. I will follow your advice and drop them maybe for better close combat weapons.

I'm not sure about leaving the medic unarmed, we don't have much in the way of scenery and I don't want him to be a sitting duck and my medic model has a pistol, again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I see you've added another guy I was going for the bare minimum for a rout test (less minis to paint) but I will probably keep him.


@ The ISH Do they? I must have missed it, could you please give me a page no. where it says this? I don't want to cheat Just Kidding .

Does any one have any experience with some equipment for their captain they found worked well?

I will try and come up with another list tonight, see what you guys think of it.
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The ISH



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Location : Frozen Wastelands

PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Thu May 27, 2010 12:37 am

TLRB v0.5.1b, page 125 wrote:
Every fighter is issued some kind of Autopistol.... The first Autopistol is free (its cost already included on the recruitment costs) and any other are fairly cheap.

The paraprofessional proofreader in me wants to see the language of this paragraph cleaned up, but wobbly gramar aside, this is pretty clear: every fighter comes with one free autopistol. The rulebook doesn't play this up, as it does for the free Combat Knife (in fact, it is missing from the Starting Equipment entry for every single fighter!) but the rule is there... study + Death Squads = Idea

This means it is possible, cheap even, to use that spiffy John Woo dual handgun fig that we've all converted... Sure, he can't do anything with it until he rolls the Gunfighter skill, but, hey, you've got Det. Tequila the Adeptus Arbites (Hong Kongis Subsector) your opponent just has Ork Boy w/ Slugga #5.

In the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.x
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Thu May 27, 2010 2:00 am

Kiwi wrote:
Thanks guys,
@ LGW a big thanks for your help, you picked up some things I hadn't noticed.

no probs


Kiwi wrote:
The lieutenants were meant to be equipped with auto guns not bolters, sorry about that that's what happens when I type things up fast Embarassed .

I know what that's like. my case the laptop has a dodgy space bar so alot of my words are conjoined..

Kiwi wrote:
I will definately give my captain mesh armour (I forgot that AP is the only thing that affects armour), although you did say
Quote :
a rarity value greater then 5
so does that mean I could give him a helmet or shield?

the rarity level 5 is when you do a campaign and both parties agree you can buy wargear/weapons/equipment that is up to rarity level 5. but that is an optional rule. the basic rule is no rare items during the initial set up of the squad. you roll for them if you have enough credit to buy at the end of your first game.

Kiwi wrote:
I'm not sure about using lasguns, correct me if I'm wrong but, they seem quite expensive compared to auto guns for only AP 6. I will follow your advice and drop them maybe for better close combat weapons.

that AP6 may not seem much but in this scale of game it is a big deal and worth having.

Kiwi wrote:
I'm not sure about leaving the medic unarmed, we don't have much in the way of scenery and I don't want him to be a sitting duck and my medic model has a pistol, again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I haven't armed my medic I will eventually but not during the first game. I'll find him a rabbit hole he can hide in. just make sure there is some cover in both deployment zones set him up behind it and then set him as hidden. his main feature is the chance of healing an officer that's all he is there for. HE shouldn't get into CLOSE COMBAT or a FIRE FIGHT!!!! he will DIE!!!!

Kiwi wrote:
I see you've added another guy I was going for the bare minimum for a rout test (less minis to paint) but I will probably keep him.

the more minis you can field the better your rout level will be... to few and the lose of one of two units will hurt you. better to be safe then sorry.

Kiwi wrote:
@ The ISH Do they? I must have missed it, could you please give me a page no. where it says this? I don't want to cheat Just Kidding .

Not sure about this.... I did read the entree in the rule book but if this was the intention of that statement then every unit would have Autopistol in the equipment section of the squad list which it DOES NOT. I've asked the powers that be regarding this...

Kiwi wrote:
Does any one have any experience with some equipment for their captain they found worked well?

I will try and come up with another list tonight, see what you guys think of it.

the bolter is a good option, depending on what your friend agrees to [eg rarity level 5 or not] get helmet, mesh armour, sword etc....

The Bolter is great as it can be fired twice if you are stationary or fired once after you move with a -1BS... great value....

But my guy is going to be having two hellpistols so he can use the gunfighter skill. so once during the game he can do an 8 shot blaze of glory or two separate 6 shot blasts.

hope this helps...

Cheers
LGW
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Thu May 27, 2010 4:12 am

yikes... missed the thread. Sorry if I repeat stuff. Embarassed

Before I start...
The ISH wrote:
TLRB v0.5.1b, page 125 wrote:
Every fighter is issued some kind of Autopistol.... The first Autopistol is free (its cost already included on the recruitment costs) and any other are fairly cheap.

The paraprofessional proofreader in me wants to see the language of this paragraph cleaned up, but wobbly gramar aside, this is pretty clear: every fighter comes with one free autopistol. The rulebook doesn't play this up, as it does for the free Combat Knife (in fact, it is missing from the Starting Equipment entry for every single fighter!) but the rule is there... study + Death Squads = Idea

This means it is possible, cheap even, to use that spiffy John Woo dual handgun fig that we've all converted... Sure, he can't do anything with it until he rolls the Gunfighter skill, but, hey, you've got Det. Tequila the Adeptus Arbites (Hong Kongis Subsector) your opponent just has Ork Boy w/ Slugga #5.

In the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.x
CRAP! This is wrong! On the 'ancient' times we had everyone with free autopistol and Combat Knife... and as things evolved, we found out it was broken. It was removed... apparently The ISH found the last remnant of this. I will add it to my things to change. Thanks! I will post it on the suggestion box, comments on this, please go to that thread.

Back to the Catachans... they are all about moving slowly, AND HIDING! Then jump into combat. Remember that!

Captain has all items he can use at 50% off... and he can buy ONE item of any rarity (that he can use immediately) at full price. Your Cpt gear costs. The Catachan Fang is REALLY nice... I would suggest Bolt Pistol and Catachan Fang Combo. That way you can shot (if you must) but max all your CC attacks (CF in primary hand and pistol on 2nd!) Drop the Sword, get some armor. I had my Captain with Bolter and Catachan Fang... regretted the decision immensly. Next time, I go for Slugger and Refraction Field! BUYA!

Drop the lasguns... take autoguns for now. Save 8 cr each...

The Catachan Fang separates the Catachans from everyone as true Close Combat Masters. Drop the autoguns from Officers, get laspistol & CF combo. Autopistol is very crappy... and you NEED to have the Officers in CC ASAP! Get them some armor.

Give the medic an auopistol... you never know! Besides, I do play my medic in the front lines. Other people hide their medics (Da Bank!), but I put my Painboy once to fight an IG Captain... I won! Just Kidding 'Urty Syringe rulez!

Leave the recruits with autoguns.

You can get items with Rarity 2-4... no Helmets. Lucky Charms and Helmets should be on the priority list to get!

The Lasgun is expensive, because it has AP 6 AND can be upgraded with Hot Packs. For an initial Squad... not worth the cash. It is designed on purpose, so Squads grow ALSO in gear! As time passes, you will start acquiring better weapons which would feel like progress.

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Kiwi



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Location : Palmerston North, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Sun May 30, 2010 12:04 am

Thanks guys,
@ Lord GreyWolf Thanks again. I will probably drop the lasguns and upgrade to them later on depending on whether or not I am able to get armour for my officers which could be quite expensive, in which case I will definitely think of leaving my medic unarmed.


@ Mordheimer Thanks for the help but I'm a little bit confused by a few things:

Mordheimer wrote:
Drop the autoguns from Officers, get laspistol & CF combo.
Feel free to correct me on this, but wouldn't an autogun and club be better?
I'm thinking this because a laspistol costs 26 roughly the same as an autogun and a club but can only fire once after moving and is not affected by any strength advances the officer may get, lieutenants have BS4 I want to use this as much as possible before getting into combat and pistols don't benefit from the attack the weak spot special rule.
Also but probably more important I don't have enough laspistol armed models.

Could you please explain more about the advantages of a bolt pistol over a bolter? I'm probably missing something but apart from being able to use the pistol in combat the bolter seems better.

Mordheimer wrote:
You can get items with Rarity 2-4... no Helmets.
OK now I'm really confused. In my copy of TLRB it says "you may only buy items that have a rarity value of 5 or less when starting a squad" which is right? Do I have to roll for these items like after a game?

I agree that I need to get armour for my officers and, as in my rule book helmets and flak jackets are rarity 4, would I be able to get these?

Sorry for the endless amount of questions it's not that I don't trust you it's just I want to make sure I get it right.
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Sun May 30, 2010 4:04 am

Well... the idea is to get your Officers in Close Combat... the Catachan Fang allows re-rolls of failed to-wound AND the Officer may re-roll any one Injury Result in Close Combat. You want to maximize they Close Combat effectiveness from game #1. Giving them Autoguns is a waste of initial cash and resources... no need for them to shot, specially when they will be Hiding to get close to the enemy. What you will use in Close Combat? Catachan Fang and.... a regular Combat Knife? Puke A Sword? Good choice as it allows Parry and benefit from Attack the Weak Spot. You could also choose a pistol. I think is better choice, because it allows you a ranged attack, just in case you need it, as well as a Close Combat attack... although no benefit from Attack the Weak Spot. An autopistol gives that +1 Armor Save... not a good thing for the Officer. I take Sluggers with my Officers. Remember this is for your new Squad... so sacrifices need to be made. Just Kidding

Quote :
Could you please explain more about the advantages of a bolt pistol over a bolter? I'm probably missing something but apart from being able to use the pistol in combat the bolter seems better.
On average you are ABSOLUTELY right... but these are Catachans! The Officer's advantage is on Close Combat... so giving him a long range weapon means that you would need to shoot (if not, when why buy it?) and can be shot back. The smart way to play the Jungle Fighters is to have everyone moving slowly (Walk) and sneaky (Hide)... then when you get close enough, spring the Recruits forward and shoot... while the Officers move in for Close Combat kill. This strategy will NOT work if you play... Mordians. They advantage is on shooting while close to an Officer. Each Regional Platoon plays differently, even when they are all IG. Ninja designed! I learned this the hard way. I got beaten to a pulp 2 games in a row because I was playing Catachans like Cadians. The 3rd game I lost... but it was close (and a tough opponent Squad and player) even if I had the wrong equipment.

TRLB v0.5.1b, page 59 wrote:
Weapons and Armor
Note that you may only buy Rare Items that have a Rarity Value of 5 or less when starting a Squad. After the Campaign starts, you may only acquire such exceptional items by locating them on the field (see the Trading section for details).
You are right... I was wrong. MY BAD. Imagine what I would do if I were not the one WRITING the manual! HA! You can get Flak Jackets and Helmets... but I would do that only for the Leader. Use the money to get more bodies (and increase your Routing!)

Hope it helps... sorry for the confusion!

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Kiwi



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Mon May 31, 2010 12:17 am

Okay so I'll give my captain a flak jacket helmet and a bolt pistol, I've been playing reiklanders so that explains my obsession with all things ranged.

I'm still not sure about pistols but I'll give a slugga to the sergent as I only have one model with a pistol spare any way Very Happy .

Will write up a list asap, until then any further help people could give me would be great Pistol .

Edit: Or not.
I have managed to acquire a ogre I will convert into an ogryn. When is the best time to purchase an ogryn when forming the squad or during a campaign? I would think it would be best to get it before but you guys will know better than me.
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Kiwi



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:01 am

OK it took a while but I've come up with another list taking into account the things you've said:
catachan regional platoon: 100

Captain 55

power fist 35
CF
autogun 10
flak jacket 10
helmet 10
Total:120

Lieutenant 42
CF
autogun 20
combat knife
Total:62

Lieutenant 42
CF
autogun 20
combat knife
Total:62

Sarge 36
CF
autogun 20
combat knife
Total:56

Sarge 36
CF
slugger 21
combat knife
Total:56

Ogryn 72
Ripper gun
Total:110

H/W S
flamer 20
combat knife
Total:56

F medic 32
Total:32

Recruit 25

autogun 20
combat knife
Total:45

Total:700
Models:9
Rout:3

Any suggestions/feedback would be greatly appreciated.


Last edited by Kiwi on Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:16 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : corrected weird spacing)
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G.Ras



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:28 pm

Nice list... a bit like my ideas in the other threat.
seems like you have the jungle fighter box equited with autoguns too.

and whoo an ogryn! a real tank, not much development but his great mobility should cover your officers into CC. thats what they should do.

and that´s the point... when you´re charge into CC. your officers (exept the capain) have one real good atack and one with armor bonus. so maybe you can´t get the oponent OOA and he strikes back. you have no armor what is critical cause you have no chance of cover.

but hey... you have an ogryn, lets see if it works.

I think i´ll go with the jungle master instead of an ogryn and spend the rest for clubs and armor for my officers.

i´ll be interesting to see witch way works better

and by the way, a slugga is 21 credits not 20^^

greetz
n.
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Kiwi



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:48 pm

Thanks,
Yeah, I wish I'd waited to get a command squad kit as well for the weapons options.

I had to cut down on equipment for the officers to get an ogryn and 9 models for the rout test, but I'm facing Mordians so I doubt they'll have more than a combat knife, clubs will be the first thing I get after the first game.

Thanks for the heads up about the slugger, that brings it to a nice rounded figure.
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Lord GreyWolf



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:51 pm

Kiwi wrote:
Thanks,
Yeah, I wish I'd waited to get a command squad kit as well for the weapons options.

I had to cut down on equipment for the officers to get an ogryn and 9 models for the rout test, but I'm facing Mordians so I doubt they'll have more than a combat knife, clubs will be the first thing I get after the first game.

Thanks for the heads up about the slugger, that brings it to a nice rounded figure.

Don't get hung up on the rout test. As this is being currently being reviewed.

Cheers
LGW


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Da Bank



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:26 am

Yes, routing is being reviewed. Most should like it, I know I do. Very Happy
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:25 pm

New rules... RULE! Ha!

They are simpler AND make the game more realistic AND fun! They are a win, win, win!

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Kiwi



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:16 am

Okay well Edward has posted his list so here is the wranglers after 2 games:

Captain McKenzie
CF
Powerfist
Helmet
Carapace amour
Iron jaw

Lieutenant Ted
CF
Autogun
Flak jacket
Helmet
Club
Dodge

Lieutenant 'Hawk
CF
Autogun
Club
Dodge
Hipshooting

Sargent Roger
CF
Autogun
Club
Infiltration

Sargent Matt
CF
Slugger
Dumdum bullets
+1Attack

Brutus the Ogryn
Ripper gun
Kurzican amour
Kurzican helmet

Drey the medic
+1BS

Burners X2
Flamer
+1WS

Infantrymen X2
Autogun
+1BS
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edward



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:30 am

i love dr drey the medic
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:13 pm

HAHAH! Medic wit +1 BS... nice one!

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Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Arachas



Posts : 1880
Join date : 2010-08-15
Age : 32
Location : Secret Volcano Lair in The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:06 pm

Which coincidentally makes him, all of a sudden, a viable member for the squad! Not a bad roll at all... Wink
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Kiwi



Posts : 461
Join date : 2010-04-21
Age : 22
Location : Palmerston North, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:13 pm

And I forgot to save any money to give him a weapon confused .
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PostSubject: Re: Help with Catachans, please!   Today at 3:39 am

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Help with Catachans, please!
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