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 27.06.2010 - battle triangle

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dr!zzt



Posts : 229
Join date : 2010-01-05
Age : 28
Location : Krakow, Poland

PostSubject: 27.06.2010 - battle triangle   Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:08 pm

tonigth I and my two friends playtest kroots (me), vs IG (jFox0) and Orks (J), all in basic 700pts. NO PICS because of lack of camera.

Kroots vs imperial guard- it was rather quick (4 turns), Pump Station Sabotage, I was defender, IG attacker.
After setup I regrouped kroot forces to one side, IG was grouped around one solid building, and trying to shoot me out. When I was approaching, moving from cover to cover, I fall under heavy fire, almost all units were shootin at my soliders and... fea hits, no wouns, long time not seen so many 1's and 2's. It was decisive, in next turn i reached anenmy forcer and butcher 7 of 10 models...

Kroots Vs Orks. Treasure Hunt. It could be quite interesting game, but an ork minion found treasure in very first buildin almost 10 inches to his edge... And I was still on my starting positions. We decie to try some shoot'n'killin, just to test Kroots against another Hand to Hand Army.

Conclusions:

*Vicious Charge is definietly overpowered. We debate a little bit and decide it schould be +1S OR +1WS, depending on chosen evolutionary path
*The same with +1 bonus to Cover Save for officers. In urbanized terrain we played i was pretty easy to find solid cover (5+), and kroot racial skill giving them bonust combined with so powerful Vicious Charge makes the little bit unstopable...
*I found how to make kroot terminator: Mesh Armor (best they could buy, 6+), combined with helmet (+1 bonus to Armor Save), Thick Skull and Hardened Epidermis skills (both +1 to Armor Save), make them 3+ Armor save. just give them shields (another +1 armor save...)
*Why is Hellgun, which is rather sligthly modified lasgun almost 1/3 more expensive than plasma gun? statistics are rather weird according to prices...
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Mordheimer



Posts : 9756
Join date : 2009-07-12
Age : 43
Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: 27.06.2010 - battle triangle   Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:36 am

Great report and feed back! My comments:

*Vicious Charge is definitely overpowered. We debate a little bit and decide it should be +1S OR +1WS, depending on chosen evolutionary path.
Nice observation... good to have in mind. Our testing has proven that the Vicious Charge is powerful, but it can be countered. Either by luck or by strategy, lots of our Kroot have been denied the Charge, thus denied the use of this Squad trait. Keep testing... and make sure that your opponents know about this, so they plan on stopping you. Depending on what we see, we may have to take your venue.


*The same with +1 bonus to Cover Save for officers. In urbanized terrain we played i was pretty easy to find solid cover (5+), and kroot racial skill giving them bonus combined with so powerful Vicious Charge makes the little bit unstoppable...
HA! Tell that to Da Bank... snicker! Seriously, I hear you. Notice that the element increases the cost of the unit, and they do lack armor. Also, Cover Save is pretty easy to ignore. I'm NOT saying you are wrong... I'm saying that now that your group knows about all this stuff, they could think (with you) ways to defeat the Kroot. If done, then we need to figure how difficult is was. If not, then we could remove the Cover.


*I found how to make kroot terminator: Mesh Armor (best they could buy, 6+), combined with helmet (+1 bonus to Armor Save), Thick Skull and Hardened Epidermis skills (both +1 to Armor Save), make them 3+ Armor save. just give them shields (another +1 armor save...)
Interesting... but in error; Kroot can NOT get Helmet. They could get a Mesh & Combat Shield for 5+ (6+ vs shooting). The Thick Skull and Hardened Epidermis skills would grant a better save (3+ or 4+ vs shooting)... but required TWO skills... at least 5 XP and GREAT rolls. Glad to see that you could abuse 'em like that... but is not terrible. Considering that you could have the IG Captain to START a campaign with 3+ Save (Carapace Armor + Helmet), this does not seems too abusive. Considering that a Critical may negate your armor, it gets minimized even more.

*Why is Hellgun, which is rather sligthly modified lasgun almost 1/3 more expensive than plasma gun? statistics are rather weird according to prices...
Did you checked on Rarity? It affects the price. Also, the Hellgun can fire multiple rounds. So it is scary.


All in all, GREAT job!!!!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powahâ„¢! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

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Da Bank



Posts : 2714
Join date : 2009-07-28
Location : Fort Myers, FL (USA)

PostSubject: Re: 27.06.2010 - battle triangle   Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:21 am

Mine in red.

Mordheimer wrote:
Great report and feed back! My comments: I agree great report this is the type of stuff we are looking for. play the game and give feedback and any one can provide feedback without playing but playing and feedback go hand in hand. Again, nice work.

*Vicious Charge is definitely overpowered. We debate a little bit and decide it should be +1S OR +1WS, depending on chosen evolutionary path.
Nice observation... good to have in mind. Our testing has proven that the Vicious Charge is powerful, but it can be countered. Either by luck or by strategy, lots of our Kroot have been denied the Charge, thus denied the use of this Squad trait. Keep testing... and make sure that your opponents know about this, so they plan on stopping you. Depending on what we see, we may have to take your venue.
Wow! I am glad someone had some luck with Vicious Charge as I have played over 20 games with the Kroot and it has been OK, but nothign major. Keep playing them and let's see what happens.

*The same with +1 bonus to Cover Save for officers. In urbanized terrain we played i was pretty easy to find solid cover (5+), and kroot racial skill giving them bonus combined with so powerful Vicious Charge makes the little bit unstoppable...
HA! Tell that to Da Bank... snicker! Seriously, I hear you. Notice that the element increases the cost of the unit, and they do lack armor. Also, Cover Save is pretty easy to ignore. I'm NOT saying you are wrong... I'm saying that now that your group knows about all this stuff, they could think (with you) ways to defeat the Kroot. If done, then we need to figure how difficult is was. If not, then we could remove the Cover. Well, obviously you don't have the chance to played against Mordheimer who rolls critical hits all the Orkish time. In all the games I have played him, my takes LOST their cover saves due to rolling the bad shooting criticals at times I hoped for a Richocet against me as at least it does not negate cover saves. LOL Again, great feedback from playtesting and this good info to keep in mind.


*I found how to make kroot terminator: Mesh Armor (best they could buy, 6+), combined with helmet (+1 bonus to Armor Save), Thick Skull and Hardened Epidermis skills (both +1 to Armor Save), make them 3+ Armor save. just give them shields (another +1 armor save...)
Interesting... but in error; Kroot can NOT get Helmet. They could get a Mesh & Combat Shield for 5+ (6+ vs shooting). The Thick Skull and Hardened Epidermis skills would grant a better save (3+ or 4+ vs shooting)... but required TWO skills... at least 5 XP and GREAT rolls. Glad to see that you could abuse 'em like that... but is not terrible. Considering that you could have the IG Captain to START a campaign with 3+ Save (Carapace Armor + Helmet), this does not seems too abusive. Considering that a Critical may negate your armor, it gets minimized even more. Yes, it can be done but costly and a few skills are needed. Dozer just found a way to make a formable Headhunter. The Headhunter is crazy strong with the right weapons. We will need to look at this since Dozer found a nice little loop hole when it charges.
*Why is Hellgun, which is rather sligthly modified lasgun almost 1/3 more expensive than plasma gun? statistics are rather weird according to prices...
Did you checked on Rarity? It affects the price. Also, the Hellgun can fire multiple rounds. So it is scary.


All in all, GREAT job!!!!
This is fantastic and I applaud you and your group's efforts on playing the game, writing reports and trying to identify how to make the Kroot better. Playtest, playtest and playtest as this holds some weight to discussions. Keep up the great work someday your name could be added to the Roll of Greatness. affraid
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Mordheimer



Posts : 9756
Join date : 2009-07-12
Age : 43
Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: 27.06.2010 - battle triangle   Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:02 pm

Da Bank wrote:
Yes, it can be done but costly and a few skills are needed. Dozer just found a way to make a formable Headhunter. The Headhunter is crazy strong with the right weapons. We will need to look at this since Dozer found a nice little loop hole when it charges.

HAHAH! THAT is so true... we calculated that the Headhunter could give the a Space Marine a run for his money! An IG with a Power Fist will do the trick... but it is great to see that other Squads could do something.

_________________
.
The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powahâ„¢! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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PostSubject: Re: 27.06.2010 - battle triangle   Today at 7:33 am

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