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 Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:13 pm

Well... after talking with Dozer, we both agreed that we needed further tests. Me, being the complete SUCKER I'm, again volunteered to work more! Just Kidding We wanted to resolve a hypothesis;

Is the Dipping Technique the great equalizer? Will dipping models "erase" mistakes made by newbies?

We all have seen the player with lots of unpainted models that complaint that painting is 'too hard' and when they finally try, they work 'sucks'. Well, I guess that also expect to pick up an electric guitar without an instructor, try to play it once for 30 seconds and get frustrated because they can not play like Jimmy Page (Stairway to Heaven) or Stevie Ray Vaughn (Pride and Joy)! There are many techniques to master; some are easy and take few hours to dominate (like dry-brushing) and others are advanced and take a lifetime (and true talent) to dominate (like Non Metallic Metal (NMM).) If the hobbyist understands this, they will eventually learn.

But what about THAT guy that doesn't want to learn to paint, but would like a good looking army? They tend to pick a single brush, and paint models with single base colors. The result is a painted model with 3 to 5 colors that lacks depth. While they are happy to see their efforts come to life, they always shrug when seeing a 'better looking army' saying "That is awesome... I wish I could do that, but 'this' is the best I could do!" We wanted to test and see if dipping is the technique that will take their models to a level in which they do NOT have to envy anyone (except those Golden Demon winners who we ALL envy in secret! Twisted Evil )

For this exercise, I put the following conditions:
  • I will paint 5 Space Marine Terminators: This is the minimum Squad size.
  • I would paint the models following the Dark Angels 1st Company (Deathwing) theme; bone white armor with green and red parts.
  • I would use a basic palette of ONLY 3 primary colors; bone white, green & red.
  • I would use a support palette of ONLY 3 colors; metal, gold, white.
  • I would NOT mix colors!
  • I would not use ANY technique (highlights, bending, dry-brushing, NMM [HA!... like I could!]
  • Once the model is dipped (and matte finished), the model can NOT be retouched in any way or form.
  • Basing and decals would be allowed.

So, I took the challenge. Enclosed are the pictures of the 5 Terminators, base and support colors only... BEFORE dipping. Here the pics. Click on small images to see a high-res picture.




















Now, as you can see all the models lack depth, but are at a minimum (barely acceptable) table quality. The next post will see the same models dipped in the stain, based and with few decals as I gave the models to Dozer for this task.

BTW... HAPPY BIRTHDAY DOZER! jocolor

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:14 pm

Well... finally got around posting the AFTER dipped pics! Sorry for the delay. Embarassed As you will be able to see, the technique is SUPERB! We tried to recreate the painting 'style' (or lack there off) of a newbie hobbyist. Most of the mistakes were either minimized or eliminated all together. Simple basing completed the models fine. We (well... Dozer) decided not to put decals on them, so to show up the final product. This guys make a very nice "superior table quality models" that would make anyone proud!

Make sure you take a look at the details Terminators Dozer had painted in this thread. While the dipped Terminators lack that level of detail, on the table they would blend in very well on his army! So, I took the challenge. Enclosed are the pictures of the 5 Terminators AFTER dipping. Click on small images to see a high-res picture.
























Enjoy!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:53 pm

Here are some side-by-side (up-by-down?) pictures of the before and after. Just Kidding



















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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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DoZer



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PostSubject: STUUUUUPID spelling errors......and do I mean STUPID!!!   Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:01 pm

They look pretty darn good considering the originals look like my 4 year old cousin painted them!!

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DeathGuard



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:13 pm

Yeah I agree, the improvement is pretty amazing. They're no comparison for a painstakingly careful paintjob, but they really do look good, certainly presentable and "tabletop quality." If anything's lacking I feel like it's the face on the sergeant, and that the dip seems to have "pooled" and left a splotch on certain spots.

Still though, definitely a quick and effective method for getting some models done in a timely fashion and to a very playable painting standard.
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:46 am

DeathGuard: I agree with you exactly! There is no substitution for 'real' work, but now I know that there is no reason for not having your models painted at all. To me, the reason excuse that "I can't paint" is no longer valid. Just Kidding The blotches of paint are a combination of me learning how to dip (while juggling my 3 kids and little neighbors wanting to mess with the models) and intentional errors (we were trying to simulate Dozer's "4 year old cousin" painting ability.

I think that dipping 80% - 90% of your army would leave you plenty of time to have your 'cool' models painted very great passion. If you base and decal the dipped models, they should form a nice force. That is what I plan to do with my Tyranids! Very Happy

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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DeathGuard



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:10 pm

I'm actually thinking of taking it up again, I just landed a copy of Space Crusade and since the models aren't super-detailed, I'm thinking a quick dip might make them look pretty good. I also have a HUGE fantasy dwarf army, that I've been very slowly chipping away at, and I may well break down and resort to dipping for my clansmen, since I have 50+ of them. I'll save my care for the general!
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:36 pm

I agree! Very Happy You won't win a Golden Demon for the Dwarf Clansmen... but they are so packed together on the tray that they are hard to see! You could even paint the 'front' ones normally, and dip the others!

What I would suggest, is to try with something basic. In my experiments I followed the instructions (the 3 videos) to the 'T'... and the results are VERY good. Now that I have dipped 10 models, I can start experimenting with my own 'shortcuts'... brushing the dip should be better than dunking the models (waste less paint), but this way you could be confident. Also, I recommend 2-3 base colors (maybe red or blue for cloth, metal for armor & weapons, flesh for skin. Then 2-3 minor color like brown or yellow for hair, white for paper and gold for jewelry. After that, let the model dry for 24 hours. I know it will look fugly... heheheh... then (OUTSIDE!!!) dip them, shake 'em and use a THROW AWAY brush to remove any puddle of paint. Then let dry for 24 hours. The longer, the better! After that, spray paint with matt finish to remove the gloss. Let dry for 24 hours as normal... then base. YOU ARE DONE!

Post pictures!

I got the Strong Tone of The Army Painter's Quick Shade. Once I run out (it will be long while) I will try with wood varnish (which is 50% cheaper) and determine if the difference is worth the extra money (I think it is... but who knows!)

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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mudboy



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm

I played around with dip a while ago too and it could definately(spelling?) be used to paint up a an army very fast. I'll post a few pics when i get home sunday.

The Termies look very nice. Have you tried with a regular joe marine?
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aromasin



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:21 pm

I've done a Tyranid army using this method (well... 1/4 of one...)

I personally don't 'Dip' them as such but prefer to paint, meaning closing to slobber, the coat over it.

For it I use just a wood varnish I found in a DIY shop. Needs about a 8:1 Varnish:Water mix but it works fine.
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:26 am

OHHHH!!! Can you post pictures? PLEASE?

PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE? PLEASE?

I really want to see those bugs!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:26 pm

From a PM I received...

Popsicle wrote:
Hi, Mordheimer,

Just wondering, what type of Paints did you use for the Deathwing Tutorial? You said you used Bone, Red and Green, but what Make and Shades? I'd really appreciate a complete Paints List, as I'm hoping to do some Painting shortly myself.

Thanks,

Popsicle,

For the dipping tutorial? I used Vallejo Paints. Bone White, Blood Red and Dark Angel Green. No shades.. one coat. The trick of dipping is to use basic colors, then dip, WAIT 24 hrs, then seal with Matt finish. Before the dip, your models will look without definition... kindda cartoonish. Trust the dip! After the matt sealing. you will see the shades and details appear. Wink

Remember to post pics of your models!

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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baptistcreature



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PostSubject: Tyranids   Wed May 30, 2012 2:36 am

I had a quick and dirty Tyranid army that I dipped using Minwax Polyshades several years ago. It works quite well with the Hive Fleet Kraken color scheme in particular. Don't remember it being much more than white base coat for the skin (white + stain = bleached bone look), blood red for the carapace, and 1-2 more colors for a few details like claws, teeth, and 'stealer tongues. Great way to crank out bunches of gants and stealers quick. Most everybody will be focusing more on your bigger nasties anyway. The 'nids have since changed hands a few times and went the way of the (e)Bay about a year back, so, unfortunately, no pics. Sad

Edited to add, sorry for the threadomancy. Getting ready to paint up some DA and forgot to check the date stamp on this thread. Incidentally, Mord did you ever get around to doing those Tyranids?
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Dysturbed



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Wed May 30, 2012 7:19 am

It's ok we don't believe in Thredomancy.

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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Wed May 30, 2012 10:16 am

Dysturbed wrote:
It's ok we don't believe in Thredomancy.
The man is right, baptistcreature! It is not your fault you just arrived. Feel free to introduce yourself at the Welcome Mat! We love new people!

I'm FAMOUS for not finishing paint projects... sorry, no Nids. One day... I promise! Just Kidding Check out my Prisoner... it is all dipped/stained!
http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/f40-prisoner-exchange-2012

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Dysturbed



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Angels Terminators... taking a dip!   Wed May 30, 2012 11:12 am

Quote :
I'm FAMOUS for not finishing paint projects... sorry, no Nids. One day... I promise! Check out my Prisoner... it is all dipped/stained!
http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/f40-prisoner-exchange-2012

Cheater

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Founder, The Society for Better Game Design
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"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, “You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.” ~George Carlin
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