3rd Semperian Vanguard

Time to beat Prius at his own game. I plan to groom my own squad of Urban Fighters to oust those Mechanicus fanatics from my planet!

The 3rd Semperian are native to the planet Semper, a Hive World in decline. The planet lies in the path of Ork raids and occasional Eldar incursions. Heresy is rife within the lower levels of the Hives: one particularly violent faction is led by the ambitious Major Sturmm. And even the Mechanicus maintains a semi-autonomous presence on the planet, because of its large industrial sector.

The elite units of the Vanguard are tasked with cleansing the planet from Chaos, destroying the heretics and in the mean while keep the elusive forces of the Mechanicus at bay.

3rd Semperian Vanguard, Rapier Squad
Among the elite of the Vanguard, Dagger squad is known for its ferocity in battle and their undying loyalty to their Captain, Ianus Belisarius. Despite being comprised of sharpshooters, Officers in Rapier Squad carry duelling swords in addition to their rifles. Captain Belisarius is in such standing with the higher command levels that he is often assigned sons of nobels. Despite his distaste for lazy recruits, the aristocratic flavor of the unit is reflected by their choice of weapons. A favored tactic in Rapier is to slow down the enemy with concentrated fire and then finish them off in swift close combat counterattacks.

Urban Fighters [100]

OFFICERS

Captain Ianus Belisarius [55]
Sword [18]
Hellgun [28]
Flak jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [121]

Lieutenant Sulla Bastdorf [42]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [82]

Lieutenant Marius Lomm [42]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [82]

Sergeant Scipio Brand [36]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [76]

Sergeant Gaius Numerius [36]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [76]

RECRUITS

Corporal Decius [36]
HWS specialist
Flamer [27]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [63]

Corporal Argo [36]
HWS specialist
Flamer [27]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [63]

Corporal Asp [32]
Medic
Autopistol [15]
Total: [47]

Private Mord [25]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [47]

Squad total: [749]

Suggestions? Constructive criticism?

Yeah, uhm...drop all the ranged weapons and take knifes instead...knifes are awesome... ehm.... yeah....


No, but seriously, it looks like an interesting list. A bit light on bodies if you ask me, the officers seem kitted out for a bit of a dual role; ranged with their autoguns, swords for up-close (might I suspect shields are in their future?). This makes them a little bit point heavy at start I think, and squishy as well. Medic is great though and should prevent any serious losses before you can invest in some armor. Really doubting the double flamer set up though. Yes, flamers are good, but also expensive.

Seeing the list it is my guess you are going to try to get relatively close, to then flame targets from short range and finish them off in close combat with the officers (collecting a great deal of 'easy' experience). A tactic that could work well, especially with the cover save bonus of urban fighters in urban terrain, but has it's risks. My brothers Eldar will probably out maneuver you and rip you appart, my own guard squad (if I take my 'first' list instead of the multi-game list I have now) should be able to out-shoot you, if the terrain permits it. I think against Sturmm's renegades you could do quite well, he is a bit more close combat focussed if I remember well, which you should be able to take with the swords and close support flamers. Telruna's Kroot (if finally played aggressively ) will still murder you in CC and ranged it would be close I think....

Personally I would dump the second flamer and maybe a sword or two to get an extra recruit or two with autogun in there, but that is me.

Private Mord?!? I smell a suicidal-abused-comic-relief kindda guy... I don't know why. I get the feeling that my Gretchins will be NOTHING compared to what this guy will be faced with.

Colonel Prius wrote:

Yeah, uhm...drop all the ranged weapons and take knifes instead...knifes are awesome... ehm.... yeah....

I was goinf to suggest BARE FISTS... they are better than Combat Knives by far.

In all seriousness... love the Squad fluff.

I suggest dropping the Swords on Sgts and autopistol from Medic (you would have 52 credits to spare)... get some Flak Armor for Lts (20 ea, so you have 12 credits left.) In terms of game mechanics, the Lts gain some protection and the Sgts provide range support. In terms of fluff, the Sgts could EARN the right of getting dueling swords. That way, when you buy the Captain or Lts Chainswords (etc) you can pass them down.

If you dump the 2nd Flamer guy you would have 75 credits, but that is just enough to get another armed Recruit. I say, KEEP the Flamer guy and buy some GRENADES for the Captain with those 12 credits. You can 'spread' them after the 1st game. Smoke could do good... or incendiary!

Cool, thanks for the feedback, guys. Bare fists it is.

The general tactic is to let the recruits go in front, try and down some baddies. When their line is breached or assaulted, the officers plug the holes. Hence the swords. Naturally the list is intended to be shooty, but in my experience CC is inevitable on the Stacked Tables Full of Terrain of the 41st Millennium.

Mord, I love your fluff suggestions that younger officers need to EARN their sword. Very, very cool. I usually want my Sarges to have CC weapons, because they do have an extra WS. But you're right, they can turn in the swords!

New list!

Urban Fighters [100]

OFFICERS

Captain Ianus Belisarius [55]
Sword [18]
Hellgun [28]
Flak jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [121]

Lieutenant Sulla Bastdorf [42]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Flak Jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [102]

Lieutenant Marius Lomm [42]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Flak Jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [102]

Sergeant Scipio Brand [36]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]

Sergeant Gaius Numerius [36]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]

RECRUITS

Corporal Decius [36]
HWS specialist
Flamer [27]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [63]

Corporal Argo [36]
HWS specialist
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]

Corporal Asp [32]
Medic
Total: [32]

Private Mord [25]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [47]

Squad total: [740]

I gave the second HWS guy an autogun, of course he is to be upgraded to a stubber ASAP. That said... I'm still digging two flamers. Flamers rock, man.

But right now I have 9 points to spare. Haven't look, but can I buy grenades for that?

The Captain could buy 1 Incendiary Grenade or 2 Smoke Grenades!

Quote :

Corporal Argo [36]
HWS specialist
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]

The HWS can only use: Combat knifes, pistol and heavy / flame weapons...

Is there something im missing ?

I would remove the swords and armor from the Lieutenants (maby give them clubs), remove the autoguns from the Sergeants, give them clubs and try to get a few private. (maby 2 privates with only clubs)
Using the non-missile weapons models as "meatshields" or hide and charge when enemy get close.

-Skavenslayer

skavenslayer wrote:

The HWS can only use: Combat knifes, pistol and heavy / flame weapons...

Autoguns, Lasgun, etc do not have any restriction of use. A HWS could use an Autogun without a problem. It only SEEMS like a waste, because they have the Weapon Field Expertise special rule that allows them to select EITHER the Weapon Training, Heavy Weapons or Weapon Training, Flamer Skills. Right now, he will have his HWS with a crappy gun until he can buy a Heavy Stubber.

Mordheimer wrote:

Autoguns, Lasgun, etc do not have any restriction of use. A HWS could use an Autogun without a problem. It only SEEMS like a waste, because they have the Weapon Field Expertise special rule that allows them to select EITHER the Weapon Training, Heavy Weapons or Weapon Training, Flamer Skills. Right now, he will have his HWS with a crappy gun until he can buy a Heavy Stubber.

But in the HWS dectription it says he can only use: Combat knifes, pistols and the heavy / flamer weapons (+ armor and wargear).. just like the medic...
Is that a mistake then... Can a medic use a ex. lasgun ??

Sry for the treath hijack (favorite smiley ever)

-Skavenslayer

Ohhh, yes!!! I remember when we specified THAT! You are right...

Weapons & Equipment: Heavy Weapon Specialists may use Combat Knives, Pistols, Heavy Weapons or Template Weapons (depending on weapon type chosen under the Weapon Field Expertise Special Rule), any Armor and Wargear from the Imperial Guard Depot, under the Recruits subsection. Rules for single and double-handed weapons must be followed when equipping weapons.

So... no Autogun for you Arachas! Have a complaint? Take it to skavenslayer! I'm about to change skavenslayer's signature to "Teaching Developers how to read their OWN rulebook!" Heheheh... THANKS!

@Arachas: Sorry m8, diddent mean to "spoil" it for you

hehe.. Yeah, maby remember you "own" rules sometime is a good thing
I like the signature idea.. might do that my self

-Skavenslayer

Nice one, skavenslayer.

The good news is that I am a developer. I think this rule sucks. Any recruit should be able to handle a rifle.

Yes, I am that stubborn and proud. I want the rule altered to cover up my mistake!

Hell I'd agree with that rule change. I don't know about any recruit being able to use an autogun, medics are a prime example. But the idea that a guy who can handle a flamer or a stubber can't shoot a lasgun or autogun seems kinda strange. If the point was to keep them from carrying a backup rifle then the rules for heavy seem to do that just fine, and something could always be added. But it kinda sucks to recruit a HWS and stick him with an auto pistol for a game (or more) before you can properly outfit him.

The rule changed in TLRB v0.4.1 (I had to look!)

ClausLars wrote:

But it kinda sucks to recruit a HWS and stick him with an auto pistol for a game (or more) before you can properly outfit him.

I have to agree with ClausLars... feels like punishing the player for getting a HWS when he can't afford the proper weapon.

Maybe this needs to be brought to Staff discussion?

Mordheimer wrote:

The rule changed in TLRB v0.4.1 (I had to look!)

ClausLars wrote:

But it kinda sucks to recruit a HWS and stick him with an auto pistol for a game (or more) before you can properly outfit him.

I have to agree with ClausLars... feels like punishing the player for getting a HWS when he can't afford the proper weapon.

Maybe this needs to be brought to Staff discussion?

It isn't just when he can't afford it. If you want to your HWS to use the Heavy Stubber, you can't start with it, so if you don't hire him and give him something he'll miss at least one game of XP. Plus you have to hope you get enough cash to hire him, make the rarity rolls to buy the stubber and have the cash to buy it on top of that.

Personaly I dont care if the HWS / medic can use rifels or not.. I would like it if atleast club was allow, but this is not the place that discussion.
This is for Arachas squad.

@ Arachas: I still think you got to many toys and not enough boys.. I see this alot, its not just you, but if your gaming group all do this, its not really a problem.

I have been making a Cadian warband (only on paper so far) and it got i think 14 models, im feeling pretty sure I would win agains you squad on modelcount alone. -I know the Cadian get "100" credit more, but still.

-Skavenslayer

skavenslayer wrote:

Personaly I dont care if the HWS / medic can use rifels or not.. I would like it if atleast club was allow, but this is not the place that discussion.
This is for Arachas squad.

@ Arachas: I still think you got to many toys and not enough boys.. I see this alot, its not just you, but if your gaming group all do this, its not really a problem.

I have been making a Cadian warband (only on paper so far) and it got i think 14 models, im feeling pretty sure I would win agains you squad on modelcount alone. -I know the Cadian get "100" credit more, but still.

-Skavenslayer

I'll admit nine guys isn't a lot, but in my experience the +1 Cover Save and the many buildings on my table make up for that. But where would you get the points to add more guys? Lose the swords?

Quote :

Urban Fighters [100]

OFFICERS

Captain Ianus Belisarius [55]
Sword [18]
Hellgun [28]
Flak jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [121]
-loose armor + sword (maby buy back-up club) gain 33-38 credit

Lieutenant Sulla Bastdorf [42]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Flak Jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [102]
-loose armor + sword (maby buy back-up club) gain 33-38 credit

Lieutenant Marius Lomm [42]
Sword [18]
Autogun [22]
Flak Jacket [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [102]
-loose armor + sword (maby buy back-up club) gain 33-38 credit

Sergeant Scipio Brand [36]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]
-loose autogun, buy club, gain 17 credit

Sergeant Gaius Numerius [36]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]
-loose autogun, buy club, gain 17 credit

RECRUITS

Corporal Decius [36]
HWS specialist
Flamer [27]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [63]

Corporal Argo [36]
HWS specialist
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [58]
-maby drop this guy all together and buy him later (or just frop the autogun)

Corporal Asp [32]
Medic
Total: [32]

Private Mord [25]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [47]

Edit: Almost forgot, the armor and weapons can be brought slowly after the first 1 - 3 games.

With the weapons and armor drop from the officers you got 133 credit and some from the HWS. Now you can get 2-3 more private with autoguns or maby 2 with autogun and 2 with just clubs.
(Im a big fan of the "meatshield" models... just 2-3 guys you feel it ok dying. Using them to bolck LOS, set up charges or charge it with heroes. I dont expect a lot from them, but if they kill a guy or 2, nothing wrong with that.

Im at work right now, so maby there are more stuff I would change, If you want to I can try to build you a spuad with the stuff you like / want.

-Skavenslayer

Sorry about double post...

I just realized that you paid full price for the captains sword + armor, so you got a few more credit there.

I made a example of how I might start a squad.
Personaly I would probaly start with carapace armor for my Captain, using him for CQC, but I really like the Hellgun idea, might end up with that myself.


Urban Fighters [100]

OFFICERS

Captain [55]
Hellgun [28]
Reflex Scope [11]
Club [2]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [96]

Lieutenant [42]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [64]

Lieutenant [42]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [64]

Sergeant [36]
Club [5]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [41]

Sergeant [36]
Club [5]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [41]

RECRUITS

HWS specialist [36]
Flamer [27]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [63]

Medic [32]
Total: [32]

4 x Infantrymen [100]
4 x Autogun [88]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [188]

2 x Infantrymen [50]
2 x Club [10]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [60]

Squad total: [749]

This gives 13 models. A nice fire base with Captain w. BS 5 Hellgun, 2 Lieutenants w. BS 4 autoguns and 4 Infantrymen w. BS 3 autoguns.
The Sergants, 2 clubber and flamer hides and / or move towards object under coverfire. Medic just hide the first few games.

First on buy list is: better weapons for Sergants (maby pistol+sword) and armor for Captain and Sergants (Lieutants can wait), I would get Reflex scopes for Lieutants.
And ofc HWS w. Stubber.

After this its more down to personal tast.
One big pice of I would do is give the medic a vox-caster and use the re-roll for shooting with Stubber or Hellgun, it feels mega wrong to give medic vox, buy nothing in the rules against that.

Hope this helps give you some ideas what you can do with the squad.

-Skavenslayer

skavenslayer wrote:

One big pice of I would do is give the medic a vox-caster and use the re-roll for shooting with Stubber or Hellgun, it feels mega wrong to give medic vox, but nothing in the rules against that.

Interesting... while it may sound ... this is the 41st Millennium. MAYBE field medics are also communication officers. HA! At least with a Vox, Players won't leave the Medic in the back of the board (which to me is ultra ! My Medics fight... and die.)

I see your point, but it still feel wrong for me...

Captain: Johnson ! we need a medic, thats your job now.
Johnson: Sir, yes sir !
Captain: We also need a radio operator. Johnson!
Johnson: Sir ??...
Captain: That also your job, here is the radio!
Johnson: ....

Being the medic requres traning, the vow-caster also needs traning (but not a much) is just not right that one man gets all the work, while the rest af the squad do "nothing".

You call hiding with the medic , i feel the same way, i would use him as a warrior to. But I also like the vox-caster near my Stubber / grenade launcher guy, now i can still get a vox-caster without "wasting" a warrior and not bring my medic i danger.

-Skavenslayer

I figure it goes something like this.

Captain: Johnson! You can't shoot for shit and we need a medic, your training starts tomorrow.
Johnson: Sir, yes sir !
Captain: Also we need a radio operator, Johnson you won't have a gun anyway so carry this radio.
Johnson: Sir I don't know how to use that??
Captain: You'll pick it up, just practice with it during surgery.
Johnson: ....

hehe... poor Johnson

-Skavenslayer

Hell, I think I'm going to have to steal the idea. And Johnson won't have it so bad, he gets to stand next to the guy with the heavy stubber!

The powergamer in me loves this idea.
The fluff player hates this...

At least he wont be hiding on the tables edge and be closer to the combat, so getting to the stubber for the kill also puts you close to the medic.. double bonus for the enemy

-Skavenslayer

I agree with both of you. But it comes to general population exploitation. I mean, you COULD make a cool story about it.

Johnson is the front lines, trying to save his comrades. After few encounters with Xenos, he was unable to save Marcus, the Vox Operator. In desperation he picked the Vox Chatter and gave instructions from his Captain to some of the men trapped with him in the fox-hole. They survived by a miracle... they all credit Johnson. As most of his duties are performed after the battle, he receives field training on operational duties and is assigned the Vox. Reluctantly, he takes the job...

That said...

skavenslayer wrote:

... getting to the stubber for the kill also puts you close to the medic.. double bonus for the enemy

EXACTLY.