Two Starter Lists

So i've been stuck in a recursive loop lately.

I've been starting to assemble my starter squads, that will hopefully be nice introductory lists whenever I convince some friends to try DS out. But I haven't played any games with the squads yet, so I don't know how good they are. But I need to assemble models to play, and I want nice, simple WYSIWYG models.

So here's my 'theoretical' starting lists, and along with a couple ideas of where they'd likely develop. My (near term) end goal is 20 or so models for both warbands allowing for a variety of composition and development possibilities.

Ideally, 'finalizing' these will allow me have a basic list to assemble and convert towards.

ORKS (I'd like to come up with starter fluff too, but for now...)

Officers:
1 Nob - equipment: Axe, Blasta, Mesh Armor, Helmet, 1 Grenade - 112

1 Sneaky Boss- Axe, Axe - 89

1 Flash Gitz - Shoota, Club - 72

1 'Ard Boy - 2 Handed Axe - 56

1 'Ard Boy - Slugga, Club - 68

Recruits:
2 Ork Boys - Club, Club - 84

1 Painboy - Shoota - 65

2 Burna boys - Flamers, Clubs - 144

3 Grots - Clubs - 60

Total: - 750
13 models total

So, I'll probably build an alternate Nob with kustom blasta and power claw for down the road. To start he's a model from the nob kit, probably the only one with a visable helmet. He starts with a basic kit and armor to save on cost and keep him survivable. The sneaky boss will get a ranged weapon on the back, the flash gitz starts with a shoota so that his eventual snazz gun is on the model. I like having one hero w/ a 2HW to 'bat cleanup' if recruits drop them.

The boys might eventually be slugga choppa boys, but I can always use fantasy orks for those without ranged weapons. The painboy gets a shoota as an incentive to stay behind cover and be able to help out. Two burnas might be overkill, but I'm planning to model three of each of the specialists, and flamer rules just sound fun. I like the idea of grots, for flavor and as both a moving priority target wall, and as a potential 'firing' line once they get ranged weapons. Sending them in w/o weapons seems cruel, but maybe the 15 creds would be worth it...

Any glaring mistakes you can point out would be helpful.

For IG Cadians,

Since converting Orks is so fun, I'm not sure how I feel about all these guys starting with just a knife and an autogun, but it seems to be pretty conventional wisdom...

Here's what i've got. Fewer of these have been assembled, so i'm more open to sweeping changes down the road.

Officers
1 Captain - Knife, Sword, Hellpistol, Flak Jacket, Clip Harness (what else do you do with 2.5pts...) - 109 pts

2 Lieutnants - Knife, Autogun, Headguard - 72 each (144 total)

2 Sergeanats - Knife, Autogun, Headguard - 66 each (132 total)

Recruits
4 guardsmen - knife, autogun - 188
1 medic - autopistol - 47

1 HWS - Flamer, Knife - 63

1 HWS - Grenade Launcher, 2 extra Grenades - 67

750 total
12 models

Modelling the Officers is my biggest question, since I want them to stand out, and they'll eventually get the sweetest stuff. There's enough variety in heads from the cadian squad and command kits to make them once, but not twice... sniper rifles, shotguns, plasma weapons... theres a lot of potential options... Granted I can always buy more models....

I realize it might be more efficient to have the captain buy 4 grenades instead of the HWS buying two, but kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

Again, help me find anything thats wrong, and i'd love advice of any form!!

Thanks
-rhuntar

I only really have experience with the orks.

Grots-they will die really fast if they get into close combat. I would leave them unarmed and put them at the front (so the enemy has to shoot at them if they are on the same level) or consider a grot blasta (pretty expensive for starting equipment on a grot). I think that two of the grots you have at recruitment would be better off being turned into an ork.

The officers and boys look pretty good. I myself am not sold on the need for two handed weapons most of the time. You won't face anything over toughness 4 at the beginning and little to no armour.

The ork list looks pretty good. Ideally, you want as many ork boys as you can at the start as they are so much tougher than the other forces. Try different combinations and see what you like.

Both list look really good for starters, but I would change a few things around.
(Note: I still havend played a single game, its all theory)

My comments in red

Officers:
1 Nob - equipment: Axe, Blasta, Mesh Armor, Helmet, 1 Grenade - 112
I like this one a lot, personaly I would just but the axe and blasta, but understand the choise of armor with half price

1 Sneaky Boss- Axe, Axe - 89
2 axes is REALLY fluffy, but consider starting with 2 clubs and save 20 (?) credit

1 Flash Gitz - Shoota, Club - 72
Flash git really have start with the shoota, so good choice there, I would only buy the club up front if there are spare credit. (witch there often aren't.)

1 'Ard Boy - 2 Handed Axe - 56
Starting with a 2hander is a personal choice, so if you like it, go for it.

1 'Ard Boy - Slugga, Club - 68
See if you can upgrade the slugga to a blasta.

Recruits:
2 Ork Boys - Club, Club - 84
They looks great, I would have liked more, but with orks its difficult.

1 Painboy - Shoota - 65
I have not thought of buying him a shoota, but great idea, maby see if it can be changed for more troops.

2 Burna boys - Flamers, Clubs - 144
No comments there, 2 flamers is good. At start up probably better then the other specialists

3 Grots - Clubs - 60
I would leave them naked and use the credit for more boys or toys

I have not looked over the prices and how much you can save, so dont (right now) got any ideas for what to buy.

Officers
1 Captain - Knife, Sword, Hellpistol, Flak Jacket, Clip Harness (what else do you do with 2.5pts...) - 109 pts
If using the captain for close combat, I would get carapace armor+head guard or a power sword, but I rather buy him a hellgun+reflex scope.

2 Lieutnants - Knife, Autogun, Headguard - 72 each (144 total)
I would wait with the head guards, save the credit

2 Sergeanats - Knife, Autogun, Headguard - 66 each (132 total)
Again wait with head guards, personally I would only buy them clubs, using them in combo with the flamer

Recruits
4 guardsmen - knife, autogun - 188
Looks great, 4 is a great starting number.

1 medic - autopistol - 47
Drop the pistol and buy a wox-caster, keep him close to the G.launcher for the re-roll to-hit.

1 HWS - Flamer, Knife - 63
Flamer=great

1 HWS - Grenade Launcher, 2 extra Grenades - 67
I like the launcher, so also great choise.

With the saved credit you should have enough for 2 gaurdsmen armed with clubs, keeping them together with the sergants and flamer.
More of my thoughts can be found in my own list, Arachas and Lazi treads.
( http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2373-skavenslayers-cadian , http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2322-3rd-semperian-vanguard and http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2341-ig-squad-from-breevan-s-22nd-regiment)

-Skavenslayer

I won't bother... so Skavenslayer is right! THERE... I said it!

HAHAHA!

Seriously... is DESIGNED to always leave your initial Squad 'wanting'. Unlike Mordheim or Necromunda, where you can create a 'powerful' Warband with everything you want, Death Squads will ALWAYS have some room for more. There is a reason for that... the game is also designed to reward the player and make the Squad grow... the "Ninja Way"

For example... You start your Officer (Sneaky Boss) with a pair of Clubs. Not bad to start. Lets say that the Orks win the battle (WE BE ORKS!!!), so after the 1st game, the Sneaky Boss will have a total of 11 XPs. Not enough for a new level... but you could buy him a Mesh Armor (no Rarity) or a Helmet (Rare 4) and suddenly your survivability increases (specially with the Helmet!)

Your opponent's IG Lt starts with an Autogun, instead of a Lasgun. In game terms, the starting opponent does not has armor, so having a Lasgun is not worth the investment. Then, he noticed that you started buying cheap Mesh or Helmets... time to upgrade! He buys a Lasgun for the Officer and pass down the Autogun.

The end result, both of you have a BETTER Squad (or at least those specific Officers), which is completely independent of XP earned. By the end of game 2, all the Recruits (that played game 1) will go up... more rewards.

You need to have this in mind when you design your initial games demos. LET YOUR PLAYERS PLAY THE POST GAME. Let them embrace the advancements. Then use the same Squads for game 2 and do a post game. Then, instead of playing game 3 with those Squads... LET THEM CREATE THEIR OWN! They be hooked!

Mordheimer wrote:

You need to have this in mind when you design your initial games demos. LET YOUR PLAYERS PLAY THE POST GAME. Let them embrace the advancements. Then use the same Squads for game 2 and do a post game. Then, instead of playing game 3 with those Squads... LET THEM CREATE THEIR OWN! They be hooked!

This is definitely the plan!! Come (hypothetical) demo day, we'll do some smaller scale games first, probably 5 or so guardsmen vs 2-3 Ork Boys and a small mob of gretchins. Maybe even genestealers or zombies, with ork/human stats. Key: Let the Wookie win. Moving toy soldiers around and rolling dice is fun. Thanks to video games, i figure that you can frame a demo in terms of Call of Duty or Halo. Your guys have guns and grenades, and i'll be running this mob of monsters towards you. You might want to climb up that building and have the guy with a flamethrower stand near the ladder... I'm hooked just thinking about it. (wait a sec.... i'm already hooked....) Then, with the basic rules figured out, we start into full, evenly matched, squads.

@skavenslayer Thanks! Loads of good advice here. I have already read and re-read your posts and critiques in the threads you mentioned. I do really like the idea of a medic with Vox-caster. Since he starts w/o a free knife this guarantees i'll be trying to keep him way out of combat. Yikes! I'm glad to get some confirmation that Flamers and Grenade launchers are fun. They just seem awesome. I'm trying to track down template measurements so I can make some custom templates during a lunch break at work.

I also hadn't noticed just how good a shot the Flash Gitz is... wait a sec...to the squad corrections forum!

-rhuntar

hehehe... remember that Grenades can BOUNCE (scatter) is you miss. Even MORE fun!