Skavenslayers Cultists

Still holiday, still at work, still double pay... still bored, so here is my starting Cultist Squad, have spend a lot of time making little changes ect.. and think in turned out pretty good starting squad.

Officers:

CSM [109]
Mark of Nurgle [25]
Sword [18]
Flail [13]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [165]
-WS4, S4, T5, A2, W2 4+ armor = combat monster. Buylist include: Pestilince Helmet, Power sword.

As. Champ [38]
Mark of Undivided [free]
Bloter [free, from CSM]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [38]

As. Champ [38]
Mark Of Undivided [free]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [60]
-Gonna use Champs as shooters, both get Bolters w. sight (not sure witch), first with S upgrade get Heavy Bolter

Chosen [34]
Mark of Khorne [25]
Axe [15]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [74]
-Combat monster, not much more to say. Buylist include:2xChainaxe or Chainaxe + powersword and Carapace armor + Head guard.

Chosen [34]
Mark of Slaanesh [25]
Sword [18]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [77]
-Slaanesh is a more fluff / model choise, Khorne is probaly a better Melee, but I want to have a Slaanesh model. Buylist include: Needle of Desire, powersword and Carapace armor + Head guard.

Recruts:

Annilater [34]
Grenade launcher [15]
2xFragmation grenade [16]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [65]
-I like Launchers, wanted a small shooting base and this guy fits perfect, gonna upgrade to Heavy stubber asap. 2nd Annilater gonna get Flamer

2 x Cultist [42]
Autogun [44]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [86]
-Part of the shooting base.

2 x Sabaturs [66]
Club [10]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [76]
-Melee group, hade some extra credit and upgradet some Cultist. Gonna infiltrat on same sida a Slaanesh deployment and hopefull the Slaanesh can keep up.

4 x Cultist [84]
Club [20]
Combat Knife [free]
Total: [104]
-Melee group, going with CSM + Khorne, gonna be brought in groups of 2, if one gets +BS gonna swap weapons with Autogun group.

Total members: 14 (max members)
Total cost: 750 Credit

Thats it, hope you like it, comments are welcome

-Skavenslayer

Nice start.

We would love to see some pics of your squad.

At the moment im making a IG Cadian and Renegade squad, gonna make them playable first (so I can start playing some games), so this is not a project yet. +gonna finish my P.E. aswell.

After IG and Renegades Im not sure what to make, Cultist I make with more or less only a Chase space Marines box and bits I already got.
Others projects i wanna start is Ork and (dark) Elders, but they require more boxes / money.

Dont worry, when I make mosething new im posting pictures

-Skavenslayer

Nice lists. Few observations... although knowing MY record, they will be all wrong!

CSM: AWESOME! Remember to always have a little something-something for his Upkeep cost.

As. Champ: I don't know what a "Bloter" is, but if it comes from the CSM... remember that all equipment exchange goes in the POST BATTLE SEQUENCE... so no gun for this guy during the 1st game. Suggest an Autogun...

Chosen: Great choice! Love the CORN! Also the Slaanesh is a nice one.

Annilater: Weird new unit? If you plan to switch to a Flamer... so it now. If not you are wasting 31 credits.

Cultists: We gotta have some Cultists... it a Chaos Cultists SQUAD! Shooters will be OK... the melee seem redundant, but useful.

Sabaturs: A 3rd 'new' unit... awesome! The idea of infiltrating these guys seems... weird. They will get picked and OOA quickly. Careful.


Great list!

Mordheimer wrote:

As. Champ: I don't know what a "Bloter" is, but if it comes from the CSM... remember that all equipment exchange goes in the POST BATTLE SEQUENCE... so no gun for this guy during the 1st game. Suggest an Autogun...

Ok.. Bloter = Bolter

Acording this post: http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2302-the-slaughtered -Dozor (the author on Cltist) says it can be done before playing first game...

Mordheimer wrote:

Annilater: Weird new unit? If you plan to switch to a Flamer... so it now. If not you are wasting 31 credits.

Im planing to upgrade the first guy to Heavy stubber and buy a 2nd later with Flamer, sorry if it was not clear

Other then that, thanks for the comments.

-Skavenslaeyr

DoZer wrote:

skavenslayer wrote:

But can you give his weapons away before playing the first game ?

-Skavenslyer

Unless otherwise noted in the units description, like the reduced cost wargear rule for the IG Captain, then you can. Remember all weapons/wargear/items purchased are "pooled' in the squad armory and are "handed" out to various units. Not one weapon belongs to a unit unless the weapon specifies it like the plasma pistol (leader only) or the ripper gun (ogryn only).

Interesting. The Units that has STARTING equipment START with the equipment and then on the Post-Battle Sequence, the resources of the Squad are shuffled. This is a Core Rule, on TLRB Campaign section.

8. Acquire Equipment from Depot Regardless where the Squad is, it can acquire new (common) equipment. Fighters may purchase new equipment and armaments using the Squad’s treasury. Fighters can also swap equipment between themselves. Alternatively, old equipment can be hoarded and re-used at a later time. Most new Recruits come equipped with their uniform and in some cases a free Combat Knife. The Player may purchase all common (but never Rare Items) Weapons, Armor and Wargear the rookie needs. This is all placed in the Squad’s stash, along with any common and Rare Items already there. The Player may then fit any Fighter with any of the available equipment, provided they are eligible to use it. Record any changes to the Fighter’s equipment on the roster sheet.

So, you get to swap equipment during the POST game... not before. What Dozer is referring is regarding BUYING items upon Recruitment. Since 'buying' did not necessarily means starting, some people were getting confused (or abusing) the Special Rule, thus it was worded specifically. The rule (mentioned above) is clear... but if you think that adding another sentence (to state the obvious)... well, I would be glad to add it... grrr... Zero-FAQ.



PS: Dozer wrote the Cultists... but I wrote TLRB. If HE decides that you could exchange the items Units start with, I will be more than happy to oblige. He would probably make it rain math and statistics to justify the exception. I got no problem at all. Until I get an 'addendum' on this from him... the ruling on the material as written on TLRB is the correct one. Sorry... I know this is not typical 'goofy Mordheimer'...

Horenstly I total agree and understood the rules exacly like you posted it, thats way I ask the question in the other thread, but when a yellowed member says thats the rules, I stop questionen it. (execpt for maby houserules)

Maby you (developers) should make sure you all agree on the rule and if necessary change the wording.

IF the Cultists is allowed to give the Bolter / Boltpistol+sword away from the beginning, maby it should be the Squard (not the CSM) that start with the weapons.

I will look in to changing my Squad, but please talk between you self and make sure you agree.

-Skavenslayer

I agree with you.

As you guys (especially you... hehehe) we (anyone in the Staff) are not infallible when it comes to remember all the rules. I have all the versions stuck on my head (that is almost 4 years of rules and corrections!) and is weird to remember them all. That is why I quote from TLRB, to be 100% sure.

Usually, it is me that post something 'confident' that is true... only to be proved by everyone that I'm way out of line. Hehehe... anyhow, if something came up from this is that Zero-FAQ is ALWAYS needing tweaking. Adding a line here and there makes for clear rules.

Mord: just to interject on this conversation here (Yes I do still lurk from time to time).... but you said...

Quote :

Interesting. The Units that has STARTING equipment START with the equipment and then on the Post-Battle Sequence, the resources of the Squad are shuffled. This is a Core Rule, on TLRB Campaign section

Which is all fine and dandy, but this section specifically deals with POST battle sequences, not initial squad recruitment. Also, all it says is that resources are POOLED....not that the unit must start with whats its purchased with. I've taken some time to look through the TLRB, and I cannot find anywhere that it says the unit with starting equipment must start with that equipment. If you can find it then great, but I for one am of the side that gear can be moved around. Its just like my thoughts on picking your choice of mutations for IR instead of randomly rolling. If someone is going to make use of the Bolter more than the CSM will be then why not give it to them. We are literally talking about ONE game here, in the end does it make that much of a difference?? No....not at all. Unless of course said boltgun has hot dice rolling and runs rampant across the opponents squad, but that would be the exception, not the "rule" for lack of a better word.

Well, if you think about it, the shuffling of starting equipment to other units does makes a different, especially on game one. In this case in particular, the CSM does is a concentration of power: better starting attributes, better starting armor and better starting weapons. All these elements are concentrated in one source. Sort to speak, all eggs in one basket.

If you can take those elements are re-distribute them among many Fighters (a.k.a. divide the eggs into multiple baskets), then you increase the over-all power of the Squad (by increasing efficiency). While this is OK as the campaign advances, one of the points of limiting Rarity on initial Squads (and having Rarity at all) is to throttle the progression of the Squad.

Specifically, the Cultists are a Squads with "concentrated power among the few, with lots of meat shields". Starting with the CSM, then as the campaign advances into other Officers... the Recruits always being 'minimalistic'. By design, the best way to use the Cultists (and I learned that by being on the receiving end! ) is to put the CSM (source of power) in front, supported by Officers and leave the Recruits as secondary support.... completely opposite to other Squads (i.e. IG) in which the Officers tend to be the 2nd wave and the Captain needs to be 'safe' fr few games.

Allowing the initial re-distribution of STARTING resources is an acceleration of the the natural Squad evolution. You are now starting the Squad on an equivalent of 'Game 2'. The opponent has to watch for the CSM (duh!) and also add the massive damage support from the 'accelerated' Officer, which inherited the superior weaponry from the CSM. Re-distributing power (in form of equipment) is a great tactic... but it needs to be throttled.

The situation regarding starting mutations on the IR is more a 'fun' factor issue. If you wanted to start with mutations and pay for them, then rolling randomly and being forced to pay for something that you don't want sucks the fun out of the experience. But on this case you are talking about exchanging items. The logic is seen on the IG Captain; he gets stuff cheaper... so why he can't pass them around on the 1st game? Simple, it upsets the mechanics of power. Buy 5 grenades cheap... wait to 2nd game and spread the fun. The fact that the IG Captain buys the grenades cheaply and that the CSM 'comes' with a Bolter is irrelevant. The mechanics of any Squads are balanced for creation and campaign progression.

It seems very evident if you were playing a single game. The IG could never exchange items bought cheaply by the Captain, so other Fighter do not benefit from having cheaper gear (like they could do by the 2nd game of a campaign). Orks are in the same position, as the Nob can't pass the gear he bought initially... at least not until the Post-Game of game 1. Why can't the Eldar Exarch can't pass his Sacred Armor? Because the Unit has been design to start with such element in hand. We could say the same for the Kroot's Shaper and his Kroot Rifle (with 1 CU). Then, why would the CC should benefit from an initial redistribution of power?

As I stated on my previous post; this seemed obvious on the section of TLRB that explains what are the 'pooled resources' and thus the spelling out of what 'Starting Equipment' means was never written. This could be a typical case of "we have always know this obvious stuff... damned! Is not on TLRB!!!" I remember one time that either Dozer or jd3 brought something like this... "show me where it is on TLRB" we all laughed in mockery until nobody could find but a vague reference that may ave implied it... but never spelled out. If you guys think that it needs to be explicit (for sake of Zero-FAQ), then adding a few sentences is not a big deal.

Definitely worth the add as our small group had a good discussion on the topic with us being divided on the way it was meant to be.

A way to fix this in the next release would be to allow squad members to swap equipment between them before the first game, but to ensure in the list construction that any free equipment squad members get can only be used by them at that time (eg. make an Astartes Bolter a different weapon form a regular bolter - it's slightly better, but requires S4 [or being a large creature if Astartes become such] to use).

The last thing we need is to make the SM's weapons any stronger. The easiest way is to add a clear sentence under the section of making a Squad which instructs that equipment swapping can ONLY be done on the Post-Battle Sequence AFTER the 1st game.

So after long time planning the "perfect" starting squad, this is what Í came up with.
(I just love trying to make it perfect, min / max all the way)

CSM [109]
MoN [25]
Bolt Pistol [free]
Sword [free]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [134]

Aspiring Champion [38]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [60]

Aspiring Champion [38]
Autogun [22]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [60]

Chosen [34]
MoK [25]
Flak Armor [20]
Head Guard [9]
Slugger [22]
Club [5]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [115]

Chosen [34]
MoS [25]
Flak Armor [20]
Head Guard [9]
Slugger [22]
Club [5]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [115]

Total for Officers [484]

Annihilator [34]
Grenade Launcher [15]
2 x Frag Nade [16]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [65]

Cultist [21]
Vox-Caster [16]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [37]

Cultists x 2 [42]
Autogun [44]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [86]

Cultists x 3 [63]
Club [15]
Combat Knife [free]
Total [78]

Total for Recruits [266]
Total for Squad [750]

I think everything speaks for them self:
CSM, Chosen and Cultists w. clubs goes after objectics and (hopefull) destroys everything them touches.
Champs and Cultists w. autoguns provide the fire base, hoping to put a few models OOA before combat begins.
Cultist w. G.Launcher help with range and try to force apponent to spread his men, making combat easier.
Vox-caster gives G.Launcher re-roll (hopefull) making it better.

This is the plan on paper, knowing my self it will never work in the heat of battle, but hopefull I will survive and can start kicking butt after first few games.

-Skavenslayer