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Laney



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Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:24 pm

I have a plan to create a mechanicus based chaos squad, built around a corrupted techmarine and his mechanicus lackeys (servitor recruits). These guys will be chaos undivided - though may include some other marks as it progresses. Don't have any of these guys built (got to finish the orks first!)

Here is the starting squad (any thoughts?)

Officers
Chaos Space Marine 112 (Power Armour, Combat Knife with Bolter), Space Marine Helmet 36
Aspiring Champion 38 Helmet 20, Laspistol 27, Sword 18, Combat Knife
Aspiring Champion 38 Helmet 20, Laspistol 27, Sword 18, Combat Knife
Chosen 34 Lasgun 29
Chosen 34 Lasgun 29

Recruits
Saboteur 33 Lasgun 29
Saboteur 33 Lasgun 29
Saboteur 33 Lasgun 29
Annhilator 34 Heavy Stubber 45 (Weapons servitor)

5 spare credits

What do you think?

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:33 am

The concept is BRILLIANT! Love it.

You are missing the Mark of Chaos for all your Officers. I would suggest Chaos Undivided.

For the rest... HOLY SH!T!!! That quad packs a punch! You will be VERY surprised... the CCs play VERY different than IG. While Guardsmen rely on Recruits to be meat-shields while Officers stand in the back, the CCs do better by sending the Officers (and their Leader) tot he front lines. A risky move... as your Leader could be over-ran by a mob.

One thing you may also notice... an IG Squad will 'feel' it advances quicker than the CC. This is done by design... so whoever plays against you will soon realize that the best way to eradicate Chaos is to SURVIVE long enough to gain the proper advancements, skills and equipment. When I play against Dozer, this happened by game 3... I was very close to win. We were sure that by game 4 it would have been anyone's game.

When you play-test the Squad... talk to your guys (and I don't mean the models! Just Kidding ) about this, so they don't get frustrated. The Chaos Cultists have been designed to challenge EVERYONE (you & the opponents) on the campaign. Once the CCs arrive, everyone's strategies must adapt.

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Arachas



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:00 am

Indeed an AWESOME concept. Very original and knowing your skillz, the models will be something to look forward to! Chaos is taking over: Prius is going Tzeentch and I'll be doing a Slaanesh squad!

In one thing the IG and Cultists are alike: their 'lieutenants' have BS4. Hence I would suggest giving the Aspiring Champions a lasgun (maybe trade it with the Chosen? They only have BS3). But then, I do prefer to play shooty.

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DoZer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:27 am

First and foremost, there was a mistake on the Cultist depot. The SM Helmet was supposed to be a rare 6, that way you could not have a 3+ save unit from the start of the game. That will save you 36 credits right there. Although it is assumed, put the Marks there, so everyone can see what you intend to make the officers out to be. These are the changes I would make in red.

Officers
Chaos Space Marine 112, Mark of Chaos Undivided Free, (Power Armour, Combat Knife with Bolt Pistol and Sword)
Aspiring Champion 38, Mark of Chaos Undivided Free,Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife
Aspiring Champion 38, Mark of Chaos Undivided Free,Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife
Chosen 34 Mark of Khorne 25, Helmet 20, Slugger 22, Axe 15
Chosen 34 Mark of Khorne 25, Helmet 20, Slugger 22, Axe 15

Recruits
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Cultist 21, Autogun 22

Annhilator 34 Heavy Stubber 45 (Weapons servitor)

with 5 credits left over.

Unit Breakdown

  • CSM - This guy needs to be in front. You do not have the toughness, nor the numbers to place recruits up front and expect to walk out alive. He needs to take the brunt of the fighting, getting in close where his high strength, toughness, and armor can be used to the best of it's abilities.
  • Aspiring Champions - These guys need to be your shooters. Their higher BS over the Chosen is more ideal. They can plug a line, and guide your cultists to victory. But, do NOT get to happy with these guys. Play them smart, have them drop targets, but be wary of OOA results. These guys might take on your CSM, and this early in a campaign will see them dumped on there ass if you try to take on your leader.
  • Chosen - Probably my favorite unit. Reason being is you can customize these guys to do just about ANYTHING. You want CC guys in your officer class? Slap MoK on them and get a +1 WS and +1 A. Instantly better than your Aspiring champions in close combat. Give them a pistol and a CC weapon, and now you have base 2 attacks plus 1 for the off-hand. Give them an axe, and watch them cut down any units in there way (axe has the -1 to armor save, which this early in a campaign no one but for leaders of various squads has an armor save better than 6).
  • Cultists - I removed your saboteurs. You had infiltrators, with lasguns...... bad choice IMO. They have the SAME BS as a cultist, and you did not take advantage of there better WS. They will infiltrate in and get shot out of hiding without the rest of your squad to support, or be cut down in CC. Even if you did not plan on infiltrating them, then they become a more expensive meat shield for your other officers than a regular cultist would (a difference of 12 credits between a saboteur and cultist).
  • Lasguns - I cannot understand the community's fascination with the Lasgun. Comparative to the Autogun (22 credits) the lasgun has the same strength, same range, same rate of fire, a slightly better AP (AP6 compared to AP-). Sure you can slap a hotshot power pack, but to take full advantage of that, you would need to place packs in all your recruits. Bam, there is 30 credits, that you can only use for one game. Oh and they can explode on you. You placed a 27 credit lasgun on BS 2 recruits, which means even if you stand still, your hitting on a 5+, on the move, 6+!!!! Go cheap, save the credits, and spend it elsewhere.


In the end, my changes upped the close combat potential of your squad, added one extra to your model count. It also upped your firepower by 2 shots (can make a difference in the long run).

Here is an alternate list that I would run:

Officers
Chaos Space Marine 112, Mark of Chaos Undivided Free, (Power Armour, Combat Knife with Bolt Pistol and Sword)
Aspiring Champion 38, Mark of Chaos Undivided Free, Autogun 22, Sword 18, Combat Knife free
Aspiring Champion 38, Mark of Chaos Undivided Free, Autogun 22, Sword 18, Combat Knife free
Chosen 34, Mark of Chaos Undivided free, Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife free
Chosen 34, Mark of Chaos Undivided free, Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife free

Recruits
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Cultist 21, Autogun 22
Annihilator 34, Heavy Stubber 45
Annihilator 34, Heavy Stubber 45

This list has 10 credits left over, has more models than yours, each officer has ranged firepower as well as having its secondary off-hand attack in close combat. I also managed to add an additional heavy stubber to the squad, giving them much greater punch at range.

_________________
Adeptus Astartes Commandments
1. Thou shalt not replace the Librarian's staff with a magic wand.
2. Though shalt not refer to thine brethren, whom the Emperor has dictated be armed with an incendiary weapon, as a "Flamer" constantly. For this has been proven to lower morale and cause strife within His Most Holy showering facilities.
3. Thou shalt not follow a Librarian around thinking, "Can you hear me now", repetitively in an attempt to drive him insane.
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Arachas



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:51 am

Check out DoZer going mental on the count of the Cultists. Wink

Question:

Quote :
Chosen - Probably my favorite unit. Reason being is you can customize these guys to do just about ANYTHING.

Yet you name only the Khorne variant. What are other variants that you feel are awesome?

Quote :
Lasguns - I cannot understand the community's fascination with the Lasgun.

The answer is easy: familiarity. It's the most common weapon in the 40k universe, even if in actuality autoguns are more common. But you're right: Laney should know better! Wink

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DoZer



Posts : 779
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:01 pm

Arachas wrote:
Check out DoZer going mental on the count of the Cultists. Wink

Question:

Quote :
Chosen - Probably my favorite unit. Reason being is you can customize these guys to do just about ANYTHING.

Yet you name only the Khorne variant. What are other variants that you feel are awesome?

Haha! It probably helps that I was the lead design on it. Gives you that extra insight when you go to create lists.

Chosen: Mark of Nurgle is always worthwhile. +1 to Toughness is huge in this game. That puts him almost on the level of the Space Marine. He's cheap, and can tar pit units in hand-to-hand, or shield Aspiring Champs to allow them to do there thing.

Mark of Slaanesh: Facing a bunch of Eldar squads in your area? Then this is the one for you. Move and strike just as fast as other Eldar, but with a better chance to rise in toughness.

Mark of Tzeentch: 5+ Inv......need I say more? Alright, more you say......how about choosing one psychic power. Or the ability to fly.

Undivided: Get two experience increases? Roll a +1 S and a new skill? Hello Heavy bolter.

All this you can do, for far cheaper than any other Officer class. Any combination you can think of, you can do. That's what I love about the cultists, you can literally do what you please.

For what he was trying to accomplish though with the Aspiring Champions, he can do better using MoK with the Chosen.

Literally build and create your own custom officers.

_________________
Adeptus Astartes Commandments
1. Thou shalt not replace the Librarian's staff with a magic wand.
2. Though shalt not refer to thine brethren, whom the Emperor has dictated be armed with an incendiary weapon, as a "Flamer" constantly. For this has been proven to lower morale and cause strife within His Most Holy showering facilities.
3. Thou shalt not follow a Librarian around thinking, "Can you hear me now", repetitively in an attempt to drive him insane.
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:26 pm

Cheers Guys - very useful to get this feedback (I didn't expect anyone to post on this!).

On the saboteurs - I love the flexibility of infiltration, however I misread the BS and WS as the other way round. I would like to keep these guys, in some capacity (I may need to mix the marks).

On the lasguns: my reasoning (ignoring the BS2 mistake! Just Kidding and flawed as it may be) was to use the long term progression of the lasgun (it negates any helmets or mesh armour out there early on in the campaign and has potential for hotshot packs. I considered autoguns - but for an extra 5 credits.

I'll post a whole new list (all the marks look too cool - I'll have another look, they were all chaos undivided in the first list)

Cheers Laney cheers

Edit: Here goes with the new list (I crumbled on the saboteurs - I wanted shooty infiltrators!)...

Officers

Chaos Space Marine 112, Mark of Nurgle 25, (Power Armour, Combat Knife, Bolter)
Aspiring Champion 38, Mark of Khorne 25, Helmet 20, Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife free
Aspiring Champion 38, Mark of Chaos Undivided free, Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife free
Chosen 34, Mark of Chaos Undivided free, Autogun 22, Axe 15, Combat Knife free
Chosen 34, Mark of Chaos Undivided free, Autogun 22, Combat Knife free

Recruits
Cultist 21, Autogun 22, Combat Knife free
Cultist 21, Autogun 22, Combat Knife free
Cultist 21, Autogun 22, Combat Knife free
Annihilator 34, Heavy Stubber 45, Combat Knife free
Annihilator 34, Heavy Stubber 45, Combat Knife free

4 credits spare

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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jammydodger



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Location : Stockholm, Sweden

PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:47 pm

This entire thread was worth it just to have Dozer explain the Chaos Cultists (sorry if that seems like I'm belittling Laney's original post). I have been thinking about a CC Warband and some of the advice above made me think: "Thats exactly what I was thinking - at least it wasn't mad!" and at other times: "What, why didn't I see that, its great!".

I hope Dozer's advice helped Laney as much as it did me and my understanding of the CC (even if I never play them).

I admit I would be tempted to use the Saboteurs as a back-up squad for the CSM - he might not need support but it might help them to have him around. It would also make use of their WS.
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DoZer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:11 pm

Laney: I figured you misread something somehwere about the Sabotuers. They are a great unit, which is why they are in the squad, but they are DEFINITELY a mid to late campaign addition to your squad. I was however, proven very wrong about my views on Sabotuers by Jd3's Sabotuer La Serpente'. That guy was an absolute beast!!

I like your new list. The Officers have a lot of synergy between each other, and can compliment the other very well. Do not forget your free boost for your Undivided once per game!! It can come in handy when your in a pinch.

I do not know your plans are for each officer, as I usually have what I want mapped out in my head before the campaign starts, but here is some food for thought for each one.

CSM: Now that you have given him MoN, do not even BOTHER with the basic SM Helmet. Go right to the Helm of Pestilence. It can negate a critical hit once per game on a 3+, gives all the bonus's of a SM helmet except for the infra-red goggles (+1 to Armor Save, ignore stun on 4+). That is HUGE for you, since basically the only thing that can really bring down your Plaguemarine is critical hits. Something else to think about, is taking the True Grit skill which allows you to use your Boltgun like a pistol in hand-to-hand, which will save you some credits. Your going to be taking a LOT of guys OOA with him, so Diseased Body dark gift is also something to look into. Another big one for you is to get the Manreaper (or what we affectionately call it, the Manraper). When using it you have the potential to regenerate any wounds that you had received.

Aspiring Champ MoK: Get this guy a chainaxe, likity split. Your mark of Khorne (+1 WS, +1A) puts you at WS5, the Chainaxe will give you another. Although it does not help you when you hit, it immenesly helps any attacks back at you. Get another WS increase, and anything WS3 or lower will be hitting you on 5+. Rage of Khorne and Permanent Daemon Talons are also something that you will definitely want (Rage of Khorne gives +1 WS, +1 A, +1 S upon the initial charge, Permanent Daemon Talons are exactly like it sounds). Carrying flash and smoke nades will also help this unit, as it can screen or blind any enemy units trying to hit him as he moves to get up close and personal.

Aspiring Champ MoCU: Make this guy your sniper. Give him a boltgun, rope and hook, the Hasted Fire Magazine, and a telescopic sight. Pick a spot with an elevated field of fire, and take two shots 30" away.

Chosen: Both of these you can pretty much do what you want with them. Give one the heavy bolter if they get a strength up, or custom build another Close Combat monster. Use them to fill in any gaps in the squad that you see.

jammydodger: Thanks for the comments. Glad I could give insight to all instead of just the OP.

_________________
Adeptus Astartes Commandments
1. Thou shalt not replace the Librarian's staff with a magic wand.
2. Though shalt not refer to thine brethren, whom the Emperor has dictated be armed with an incendiary weapon, as a "Flamer" constantly. For this has been proven to lower morale and cause strife within His Most Holy showering facilities.
3. Thou shalt not follow a Librarian around thinking, "Can you hear me now", repetitively in an attempt to drive him insane.
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Laney



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:55 am

Thanks for the great advice.

I think my first purchase will be a healthcare professional (I like to protect my investment!) and look at other Marks (the Mark of Slaanesh will appear on one, maybe two of the remaining officers - though I must have a heavy bolter in the squad, so one will stay undivided - whichever gets the strength increase first).

@ Jammer: Not at all. The first post was a fairly badly thought out squad list - the posts its generated have been much more useful!

Cheers Laney cheers

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:27 pm

DoZer wrote:
First and foremost, there was a mistake on the Cultist depot. The SM Helmet was supposed to be a rare 6, that way you could not have a 3+ save unit from the start of the game.

Not only this, but the Heavy Stubber should also be Rare 6. I will open a thread on the Staff area.


EDIT: I'm super late to answer this GREAT thread!

I love the Chosen too... mainly because I can create a better story from them. When I played CC, my chosen had the Mark of Chaos Undivided... and I slapped Heavy Bolters on them (they are the only ones that can use that weapon) and added few extras (more shots!) I guess is the Ork in me... MORE DAKA!!!!

Sabotuers are fun, specially jd3's... Pepe Le Pew. Yes!!! It was HILARIOUS... jd3 talked in this ridiculously bad french accent, and somehow the Sabotuer always ended OOA (but survived) by a Flamer attack. Flamethrower

I agree with Dozer; get the CMS a Helm of Pestilence! Also... you know that EVERYONE and their children will aim to kill him. He will soak up fire like a Hierophant parked over an Ork Waaagh Totem Pole. That is HIS job... never be afraid of putting him in front. The moment that you put meat-shields in front, the moment you get creamed. Why? Because your opponents will start adapting their tactics to take down the CSM (tough cookie) and if you replace him with a meat-shield, they will be mushy.



@ jammydodger

: That is Dozer for ya'... always breaking stuff and surprising you! Just Kidding

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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Dark Mechanicus Chaos Squad   Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:07 pm

Right, the cultists may or may not be a mechanicus based squad (I have yet to decide). I'll be building a new CSM (possibly as a Death guard or maybe Blood angel SP/apothecary - thinking of the Dornian Heresy here). This guy is essentially a lone renegade, who is a champion of Nurgle. He tests new creations for the glory of Nurgle on the other cultists. These are his test subjects and whenever they gain advancements it will be due to his tinkering with the diseases or biomechanics they have been 'treated' with. If any of the recruits gain LGT it will be an indicator of how the half life they now lead as test zombies, ghouls etc has allowed them to regain a twisted form of their original sentience. I'll write a proper fluff later.

Officers
Name: Unknown Chaos Space Marine 112 (Power Armour, Combat Knife with Bolter) MoN 25
Subject Alpha 2.0 Aspiring Champion 38 Slugger 22, Axe 15 Combat Knife MoK 25
Subject Strain Gamma 7.4 Chosen 34 Autogun 22
Subject Strain Theta 3.2 Chosen 34 Autogun 22

Recruits
Subject Strain Delta 2.1 Saboteur 33 Autopistol 15, CK free
Subject Strain Delta 3.7 Saboteur 33 Autopistol 15, CK free
Subject Strain Delta 1.2 Saboteur 33 Autopistol 15, CK free

Subject 3 Strain Epsilon 5.0 Annihilator 34 Flamer 27
Subject 2 Strain Epsilon 7.5 Annihilator 34 Grenade Launcher, Frag Grenade (2) 16 + Frag Grenade free
Subject Test Strains Cultist 21 CK free, CK 5 (x5)

Model Count: 14
Total:749 (1 credit spare)

Any thoughts on this one?

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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