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 Extreme Cadian Squads

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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Extreme Cadian Squads   Thu May 17, 2012 5:26 pm

I've been thinking about the max officer thread and thought I would build a squad of each type and see if I can encourage my brother to come over for a game or two (he isn't much of a gamer, just a little bit of blood bowl - but a few beers should help the persuasion) every few weeks. That way I can compare the two squads...

Squad 1: The Elites - Max officer numbers and high level of starting equipment (I added in the Hired Gun to provide an elite boost)...

Captain: Combat Knife, Power Sword, Las Pistol, Flak Jacket, Helmet, Frag Grenade 129

Lieutenant: Combat Knife, Sword, Las Pistol, Flak Jacket, Helmet 124

Lieutenant: Combat Knife, Lasgun, Flak Jacket, Helmet 108

Sergeant: Combat Knife, Lasgun, Flak Jacket, Helmet 102

Sergeant: Combat Knife, Lasgun, Flak Jacket, Helmet 102

Medic: Autopistol, Helmet 64

Heavy Weapon Specialist: Combat Knife, Flamer, Helmet 80

Kasrkin Sergeant Hired Gun: 39

Total: 748 credits (2 credits spare) 8 Fighters



Squad 2: The Horde of Whiteshields - Min officer numbers and basic starting equipment (The only high spend was on the captain to take advantage of the starting equipment rules)...

Captain: Combat Knife, Bolter, Flak Jacket, Helmet, Frag Grenade 110

Sergeant: Combat Knife, Autogun 58

Heavy Weapon Specialist: Combat Knife, Autopistol 51

Heavy Weapon Specialist: Combat Knife, Grenade Launcher, Frag Grenade, Smoke Grenade 59

Medic: Autopistol 47

Infantryman (x9 each placed in a separate recruit group): Autogun 47

Total: 748 credits (2 credits spare) 14 Fighters



Any thoughts on how I can optimize these two squads (in their own ways)?

Laney Very Happy

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria


Last edited by Laney on Fri May 18, 2012 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Thu May 17, 2012 10:13 pm

Buy an extra grenade with the Captain... 1/2 off!

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Laney



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Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Fri May 18, 2012 1:30 am

Done Mord - Squad above changed.

Cheers:D

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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skavenslayer



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Location : Kokkedal, Denmark

PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Fri May 18, 2012 3:09 am

Its allways diffucult to give advice on fluff squads, but I will give it a try...

Squad 1: The Elites
Its very elite, not much I to change, but one thing to consider is dropping pistol from medic and change Helmets to Head Guards and hiring another HG.
I probbaly go for the Demolition Expert, using his traps to control the map.

Squad 2: The Horde of Whiteshields
If it is for one of games, then its ok, but for campaign, the few Officers is gonna hurt a lot.
Drop Infantrymen, till you get enough credits for both Lieutenants armed w. autoguns and both Sergants w. clubs.
Consider dropping pistol from medic, and maby buy a vox-caster giving grenade launcher re-roll.
A shooting Captain, really should start with a Reflex Scope, but then its starting to look a little to specialiset.

This is all I got at the moment (more will probaly come later).

-Skavenslayer
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Mordheimer



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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Fri May 18, 2012 8:34 am

Now with a little more time...

Squad 1: The Elites
I would agree with skavenslayer. Changing the Recruits Helmets for Head Guards would visually be the same and dropping the Medic's Autopistol won't make that much of a difference (he is a terrible shot!), but a Demolition Expert would make the Squad FEEL more elite. Not every bunch of Guardsman have their own Demolition Expert with them. With the spare change... get MORE grenades for the Captain. Smoke or Incendiary if you can... that way you can block LoS at will, which not only will help your Squad BUT makes it look more 'fancy pants'. HA! Having 10 Fighters reduce how much you can sell ERs by 5 or 10 credits... which is not significant at all.


Squad 2: The Horde of Whiteshields
I would NOT agree with skavenslayer... at least not completely. Yes, the 1st or 2nd game could hurt for lack of Officers during the Exploration Phase... but after game 2 ALL the individual Recruits WILL gain an Advancement... with so many rolls, you max your chance of rolling many TLGT. This wold give you lots of 'sergeants'... an Officer which is a blank slate that you could custom build. Adding just one more Officer will NOT make a significant difference during the Exploration Phase.

  • Assuming that you LOST the game, thus you roll only as many dice as you have Officers.
  • You would roll 2 dice, which means you find 2 ERs that can be sold for 60 credits. You could only replace 1 Infantryman with gear, or 2 with just a club.
  • Adding a 3rd Officer makes the average roll be 9... which still gives you 2 ERs (60 credits).
  • If you roll 12+ on the Exploration Phase (easier with 3 Officers) you find 3 ERs ,that could get you only 65 credits! Thus adding a 3rd Officer does not change significantly the earning potential of the Squad.
  • If you roll 18+ (easier with 4 Officers) you find 4 ERs ,that could get you 80 credits. Again, the significance is not much.

So... where is the money? SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
  • By WINING games! You gain an extra dice, which translates on having an 'extra' Officer without the investment on the Unit and his gear. If you win, you roll 3 dice with 2 Officers.
  • By ROLLING SAME OF A KIND! This is additional treasure. If you roll 2 of a kind, you could earn an additional 2D6x2 Credits. Rolling 3 of a kind earns you an additional 3D6x2 Credits. While this is dependent of luck, on average you could earn 12 and 18 credits respectively... MUCH more than with an additional ER.


I think that it is the combination of those factors that makes ANY of those Squads insanely fun to play! The Elites Squad have a great risk factor... every man IS really important. You have some safeguards in place (Armor Saves) to protect every piece of your investment, but those can be taken away by a poor roll... like a lucky attack (Critical Hits are the GREAT equalizer). The Medic provides further insurance, but if he bites the dust... you are in trouble. If you put him on the back (COWARDS!!!) then you are cutting one man of the Squad. On the other side, the Squad has great earning potential. You roll an average of 15 on Exploration (18 if you win), which translates in 3 (or 4) ERs which you can sell for 70 (or 85) credits (with 10 Fighters). Add any treasure found, and you could have around 100 credits per game. You need 26 Credits for Upkeeps, so you have 75 Credits to either replace losses (1 Officer and some gear) or start getting some fresh meat (Infantrymen!) The bane of this Squad is its small size... you need to play smart and have some luck. A Squad like this would keep you on the edge of your seat the whole campaign... your Officers being the PRIME target for everyone; they need to be neutralized (a.k.a. KILLED) as soon as possible, at all costs! It is like "Dirty Dozen" all over!

On the other hand, The Horde of Whiteshields Squad starts with low income potential, but this can be overcome if played intelligently. Using the terrain becomes critical, as well as maximizing your attacks. The advantage is with numbers... I don't care how great your Armor Save is, you are going down... I have over 20 attempts (shots) to prove it. I can loose some 'filler'... irrelevant. We are Guardsman and that is what we do... we come in huge numbers, fire massive amount of laser-pointers which add up and can kill few unlucky enemies and we die at the snap of the Emperor's Fingers (well... maybe at a Commissar's fingers!) You could earn enough cash to 'break' even (recover any loses) if you win (you have the man-power!), but you get to see it 'grow' in leap and bounds (rolling TLGT and customizing new Officers). Again, playing intelligently (and some luck) you could 'survive' the first 2 games... and then the Squad becomes alive with stories that resemble a typical IG force... nobodies becoming heroes, who then die senseless deaths.

Personally, I do not know which Squad I would like to play... they are BOTH really cool concepts!



On a final observation... the income earning potential is NOT dependent on how big or small your Squad is, but in the amount of Officers you have. I have done the math here, so you can see with ease this fact. If your Squad had only 6 Officers and no Recruits, you could be swimming in cash and if you are also lucky, have great gear. On the other hand, one unlucky day and you could find yourself in trouble... but the SAME thing could happen if you had 6 Officers and 14 Recruits... or 1 Officer and 19 Recruits. ONE LUCKY or UNLUCKY day WILL change your Squad forever.



_________________
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The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Fri May 18, 2012 2:16 pm

Thanks Guys for the great feedback.

@Skavenslayer: In one sense these are attempts to optimise squads (rather than 'fluff' squads) but along very strict parameters. The Elites is to demonstrate the small squad/max officer/high equipment build. If have built a squad that was pretty much all officers and HGs and it had some very cool stuff, but HGs drain resources and I want to see how this squad will work without the extra shiny things (I even considered droping the Kasrkin for this reason). The demolition expert might be a very cool later campaign addition to think about though.

Quote :
Squad 2: The Horde of Whiteshields
If it is for one of games, then its ok, but for campaign, the few Officers is gonna hurt a lot.
Drop Infantrymen, till you get enough credits for both Lieutenants armed w. autoguns and both Sergants w. clubs.
Consider dropping pistol from medic, and maby buy a vox-caster giving grenade launcher re-roll.
A shooting Captain, really should start with a Reflex Scope, but then its starting to look a little to specialiset.

I have to disagree with your assessment of this squad Skavenslayer - on paper it definitely starts slow, but with TLGT rolls (note the recruits are in their own groups to maximise this opportunity) the officer number rise fast (after game 2) and the growth of this squad can (with a little luck) be very steep. I've done a theoretical trial of two similar squads to this and compared their income over time (I did actually roll the dice however - yes I am that sad), the result was surprising - they had almost identical income by Game 5/6 (in fact I think the horde income was slightly bigger because it rose to six officers before the elite squad, which only had 1 or 2 recruits to possibly get an TLGT chance)

The purpose of this squad is purely to demonstrate/test that a min officer/horde will work in a campaign. A vox caster is a great possible addition and while the medic is going to be hiding (I'm not Mord Just Kidding ) I don't like the idea of him being a sitting duck in either squad. I'll consider the reflex scope, but if it limits my other options or loses me a recruit it doesn't go on the list.

Thanks for your input guys

Laney Very Happy

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Sat May 19, 2012 5:11 pm

This is each of the starting squads (using old models). They aren't WYSIWYG, but they are as close as I could get...

The Elites (13th Varangian Gamma Commando)



The Horde of Whiteshields (75th Allansian Regiment) - virtually everything represents an autogun in this squad!



Cheers Laney:D

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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Mordheimer



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Age : 43
Location : Elizabeth City, NC (USA)

PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Sat May 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Excellent choice of models! I see some of my favorites from the 'Classic Laney' model line. HA! Classics, because they were done 2 years ago!

Laney wrote:
A vox caster is a great possible addition and while the medic is going to be hiding (I'm not Mord Just Kidding )
Of course not, buddy... you could not be this cool even if you move to Uranus.

HA! DOUBLE PUN MEANS DOUBLE POINTS!!! cheers

_________________
.
The Mordheimer - Death Squads' Chief Editor & Ninja Designer. Bursting with ARACHAS' Dev-Powah™! Puke
Can't wait until someone invents a time machine so I can go to the specific day in the past that I volunteered for this, so I can kick my own ass.

Support Bacteria; it is the ONLY culture some people have!
Since I ask "What do you think?" to all Staff, I have included it here to save time.

DoZer Flamethrower Mordheimer Justice NEEDS to be Served! Maybe 3rd Degree burns will teach you not to Tom Sawyer me to work!

.
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http://www.DeathSquadsGame.com
Laney



Posts : 3352
Join date : 2010-02-13
Age : 40
Location : Colchester, Essex, England

PostSubject: Re: Extreme Cadian Squads   Sun May 20, 2012 3:16 am

LOL! Double Points indeed!

I thought I'd use these models, because my new squad is nowhere near complete (only just started painting) and it might make up for the continuing poor quality of my scenery when we get to a game or two. Hopefully, my bro will be able to pop over for a game or two during the week (he only lives ten minutes away after all).

The new squad was going to be in blue, but it didn't work on the test model, so I'm going for a parachute regiment style camo (very green camo, with maroon berets and polished black boots).

Laney:D

_________________
I thought the acolytes of Khorne were supposed to be warriors, not a bunch of pansies.
— Commissar Ciaphas Cain, to a Khorne Berserker, during the Chaos attack on Adumbria
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