IG squad from Breevan's 22nd Regiment

So there is my IG Squad design I am planning to build to help introducing DS to my group. I'll try to come up with Eldar (Dire Avenger) squad as well, so I can try it with friends who are too lazy to build their own squads

(EDITED!)
Cadian Platoon - 0
Captain (flak jacket, sword, hellgun, helmet) - 110
Lieutenant (flak jacket, autogun, club) - 89
Lieutenant (flak jacket, autogun, club) - 89
Sergeant (mesh armor, autogun, club) - 81
Sergeant (mesh armor, autogun, club) - 81
HWS (flamer) - 63
Medic (autopistol) - 47
2 Infantry men (autogun) - 94
2 Infantry men (autogun) - 94

(and 2 credits left )

Cool Squad, Lazi. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy to see people playing Jenkalas... I made up the fluff... hehehe... Few observations on your Squad design:

* The Captain MUST NOT pass any items he purchased until the 2nd game. This means that he may or may not use the Shotgun during the 1st game, but he may NOT give it away either. On the Post-Battle Sequence, when you can buy and/or exchange gear, the Captain can give any of his stuff away or put it on the Squad's stash.

* The Shotgun is Rare 6, 25 credits. I honestly think that you are "wasting" your "free" Rarity roll on something relatively easy to get. Instead of a Lasgun and Shotgun, just go for a Hellgun! You get 15 credits back.

* Drop the Mesh for your HWS and Medic... save 36 Credits.

* Buy an Autogun for the Sgt... you still have 29 credits left.

* Buy a Helmet for your Captain... you have 22 credits left.

You can save that cash for the Shotgun. At the end, you have a better equipped Squad AND have some cash left!

Thanks for comment, Mordheimer. I'll look at it more carefully tomorrow

As to this:

Mordheimer wrote:

* The Captain MUST NOT pass any items he purchased until the 2nd game. This means that he may or may not use the Shotgun during the 1st game, but he may NOT give it away either. On the Post-Battle Sequence, when you can buy and/or exchange gear, the Captain can give any of his stuff away or put it on the Squad's stash.

I think rules are a little bit unclear in this (or at least were before 0.6.4). I'll edit this post with some quotations tomorrow, now I really have to go to bed.. Have to get up in 6 hours or so :/

The rules in question...

• Well Equipped: Being an Officer has granted access to a variety of wargear. Only during the initial recruitment of this Officer, the costs of all Weapons, Armor and Wargear purchased for his immediate personal use would be reduced by 50% (round down). Note that the Officer may purchase any allowed combination of items that the game allow (for example an Autopistol, a Lasgun, a Sword, an Axe and 5 Grenades) and pass them another Fighter after the next game. You may NOT buy an illegal combination of items (for example 3 Autoguns) for this purpose. The Officer must be able to use all purchased items on the initial game, no exceptions. • Access to Special Gear: Squad Leaders have access to the most precious of resources when assembling their teams. Only during the initial recruitment of this Officer, the Captain may acquire any one (1) Rare Item (Weapon, Armor or Wargear, regardless of its Rarity Value) that he can immediately use, by paying full its full credit value.

Although I think is obvious, we do aim for a Zero-FAQ... Do you think we should include the 'passing' information on the Access to Special Gear rule?

Mordheimer wrote:

The rules in question...
• Well Equipped: Being an Officer has granted access to
a variety of wargear. Only during the initial recruitment of this
Officer, the costs of all Weapons, Armor and Wargear purchased for his
immediate personal use would be reduced by 50% (round down). Note that
the Officer may purchase any allowed combination of items that the game
allow (for example an Autopistol, a Lasgun, a Sword, an Axe and 5
Grenades) and pass them another Fighter after the next game.
You may NOT buy an illegal combination of items (for example 3
Autoguns) for this purpose. The Officer must be able to use all
purchased items on the initial game, no exceptions.

Oh, my bad! Missed this "after" part, probably (it did not stop in my head for long enough to be memorized). Perhaps it won't be a bad idea to repeat the passing part in both rules - it would be easier to avoid the same mistake I did. It is not that long rule to be stated twice.

Welcome Lazi..

Not many moons ago Arachas posted about starting the same squad and here are some of my ideas. http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2322-3rd-semperian-vanguard

Quote :

Regional platoon: Jenkala
Captain (113)
- flak jacket, sword, lasgun, shotgun*
-I would drop everything and buy only a hellgun (28) and club (2), costing totalt 85, svaing you 28

Lieutenant (60)
-mesh armor, (* plus shotgun from Captain)
-drop armor, buy autogun (22), totalt 64

Lieutenant (82)
- mesh armor, autogun
drop armor, saving you 18

2x Sergeant (2x76)
- mesh armor, autogun
drop armor, saving you 36

HWS (81)
- flamer, mesh armor
-drop armor, saving 18

2 Infantrymen (94)
- autogun

Medic (65)
- mesh armor, autopistol
-drop armor and pistol, leaving him "naked" for now, saving 33

Comments in red
All this saves you 129 credit, giving you total: 132 credit.

Buying 2 more infantrymen with autoguns, leaving you 38 to play with. maby buy armor back to your Captain, Flak jacket + Head guard = 14 credit. Still leaves you enough for weapon for the medic, or melee weapons for the Officers.

-Skavenslayer

Ok... I made few changes, putting some of your advices into practice.

Urban fighters - 100
Captain (flak armor, hellgun, sword) - 102
Lieutenant (mesh armor, autogun) - 82
Lieutenant (mesh armor, autogun) - 82
Sergeant (mesh armor, autogun) - 76
Sergeant (mesh armor, autogun) - 76
HWS (mesh armor, flamer) - 81
Medic (autopistol) - 47
2 Infantrymen (autogun) - 94

10 credits left (for headguard for captain or just to keep for later)

Now to defent some of my decisions:
- armor for officers: I think officers are really valuable guys and giving them at least mesh armor can be repaid in few games - keeping them from getting OOA is pretty essential IMO... and even 6+ AS can prevent that.
- sword for captain instead of the club: PARRY!!! It helps keeping your captain alive if he gets to close combat by chance!!! Even for almost 4 times higher price than club, the sword is worth it!
- armor for HWS: well, still not sure about this... Flamer is kinda short range weapon, so I think it might be better to keep armor for this guy as he might get shot or assaulted easily... (on the other hand, if I drop mesh for him, i can hire additional suicidal Infantryman with just a knife who could draw all attention to himself becoming intentionaly a priority target )...

Mordheimer wrote:

It makes me feel warm and fuzzy to see people playing Jenkalas... I made up the fluff... hehehe...

I think it's really nice squad with sort of S.W.A.T. feel hidden in it and I really like it. Right now I am still undecided between Cadia and Jenkala... For the fluff I have in mind for quite some time for my IG the Cadia is probably more suitable... But I like Jenkalans so much Right now I think I'll start with Cadia (adding two more Infantrymen into list) and will make Jenkala my second IG sqaud... I think I'll be able to give it much better "soul" after playing few games of and better undestanding it's mechanics in practice (I mean I would know what to go for during the campaign). Cadia seems to be easier for game introduction

I think you overvalue the 6+ armor. Having played mordheim for many years, I just got bad experience with low armor saves.
The 5 Mesh armors costs 90 credit, witch can be better spend a start-up, but ofc should be bought after the first few games. With the Jenkalas, the cover saves should be enought at the beginning. But this is just my personal experience. (It should be noted, I got zero experience with , but have played Mordheim for years)

With the 10 credit leftover, I would buy the Captain a helmet / Head guard.

-Skavenslayer

I support the idea of putting some armor on at least your Captain and Lieutenants. But then again, cover saves do help.

I think our friend is into something. Usually we aim for a Mesh & Helmet combo by game 2 or 3 (for a 5+ Save and 5+ to Reduce Stun). He has started doing this already.

I would drop the Mesh for the HWS (more on that later...) You gain those 18 Credits... now you have 28 Credits to spend. I suggest getting a HELMET for your Captain... the gear for him is 50% off (round down, except one Item Rare 6+), so the HELMET would cost 8 credits! So... what to do with 20 credits? REPLACE the Mesh for Flak for your Officers!

It will cost 8 credits (2 per Officer) AND will save you those Rarity rolls! Now you Captain has a Save of 4+ (WITH 5+ protection against Stun!) and your Officers have 5+ Save.

After the 1st game, I would start getting HELMETS for your Officers. They would have Save 4+ (and 5+ to Reduce Stun!) They require NO Rarity roll and are a HUGE bang-for-your-buck. You could try to search for Carapace... and give it to your Captain. His Flak, keep it in Stash to pass to the next Recruit that rolls TLGT... instant protection for the new guy!

How... I understand what you say about the HWS and Armor. But look at the trade-off. From 5+ Save on your Captain, to 4+ Save & 5+ Protection vs Stun. All other Officers from 6+ to 5+ Save. BUT you can still have something... get the HWS a Head Guard!

This is a 'crippled' Helmet. It has the same Save protection as with Mesh (so he would have an Armor Save of 6+) AND would have a 6+ Protection vs Stun (BETTER!) Sure, it does NOT allows for Visual Aid Attachments, but the HWS won't use any!

THERE... best armor you can have.

Word to the wise. This Squad is weak against Close Combat. Do NOT let ANYONE get close to you... or you WILL . I'm serious... Gretchins would feel like Warbosses fighting you. You may want to think about getting some Clubs for your Officers after the 1st game. They are cheap and WAY better than Combat Knives. Your Strategy should be CLIMB high and shot whoever is a bigger thread. Orks will stomp you, leaving a bloody mess. Kroot... well, they will do the same AND lick the mess from the floor. Even IR's with Militiamen can run you over (sheer numbers) Special attention to the Cultists... if the CSM gets close, it is over. The only decision you will have to make would be "how much XP I want the CSM get".

But THIS is the nature of . The evil game is designed to make initial Squad design VERY difficult... no noob Squad is 'perfect'. GOOD LUCK!

Thank you for all your advides. I've settled on this list:

Cadian Platoon - 0
Captain (flak jacket, sword, hellgun, helmet) - 110
Lieutenant (flak jacket, autogun, club) - 89
Lieutenant (flak jacket, autogun, club) - 89
Sergeant (mesh armor, autogun, club) - 81
Sergeant (mesh armor, autogun, club) - 81
HWS (flamer) - 63
Medic (autopistol) - 188
4 Infantry men (autogun) - 47

Just one question: do you think it's better to play the infantrymen in one group or would it be better to separate them? I understand that for a large group it would be harder to buy equipment but they would get experiences faster, wouldn't they?


And one fluff note: Fluff wise the clubs will be ice-axes (well, I know ice-ax is not really the bludgeoning weapon, but I knda like how it fits the fluff). I was also thinking of some hammers/maul but it don't fit the fluff so well. (you can find the basic background here: Breevan and its 22nd Regiment).

And one hobby note: The squad is already assebled, I'll post some pics soon

Sure thing Lazi! I suggest you update (EDIT) the 1st post with your final list... easy to follow.

Ahhh... small or large Recruit Groups (RG)... the eternal strategic question! This is purely subjective... every Campaign is different. Here are my personal views:
Large Recruit Groups (5 Recruits)

• + Easier to manage on Roster Sheet (less space).
  
• + Easier to manage in game (identical equipment).
  
• + In some occasions (Scenario dependent), they gain XP very fast.
  
• - One Advancement roll per RG... you may get something you don't want for EVERYONE.
  
• - Acquiring identical gear can be slow and/or expensive.

Small Recruit Groups (1 Recruit)

• + More rolls for Advancements, thus more chances to roll something you may like. i.e. 5 RGs of 1 Fighter means 5 Advancement rolls in game #2.
  
• [color=green]+ With more Advancement rolls you increase your chances of rolling TLGT to maximize Officers.
  
• + Getting gear can be done slowly.
  
• - So many Fighters/Models with different gear may work against you as you may send the wrong Fighters to tackle a particular situation ('Man... I though that THIS guy had the Red-Dot Laser! GRRRR!!!!')
  
• - Royal pain to manage on Roster Sheet (prepare to flip pages!)
  
• - Complicates in game model recognition, thus slows the game.
  
• - In some occasions (Scenario dependent), they gain XP slower.
  

I like 'medium' size RG... 2 or 3 Recruits. Managing Roster Sheets is a REAL pain for me, so RGs of 1 are out of the question for me. I also 'forget' what everyone has, so I must constantly look who are they in paper. But I like to increase my chances of a new Officer as well as rolling something 'good'.

I hope to see these guys soon... they sound awesome!!!


PS: You can edit the 1st post and change the TITLE... so when you have a name, you can change it. The system will change the links too!

Thanks, Mordheimer. Pros&Cons table like the one you wrote was exactly what I needed There are some things you can just read from the rulebooks, but there are also some you can find out only by playing the game.

EDIT: Is the helmet/head guard really giving AS even if do not have another armor? Because if it does its kinda weird rulewise... Or pricewise, to be precise...
If it does I might change Sergeants' mesh for headguards (and add head guard to HWS and Medic)...

Easier to see, from TLRB...

Head Guard Special Rules • Chance to Reduce Stun: A Fighter that is equipped with this Head Protection has a probability to reduce an Injury result of Stun to Knock Down of 6+. If you determine that the injured Fighter wearing this protection was Stunned, roll a D6. If successful, treat the Stunned result as Knocked Down instead. • Stackable Armor Improvement: A Fighter that is equipped with this form of Head Protection gets a +1 to his Armor Save. This bonus is stackable with other Armor. For example, a Fighter wearing an armor that provides an Armor Save of 5+, by adding this form of Head Protection he would have an Armor Save of 4+. • Head Protection: This armor provides protection to the Fighter's head and can’t be combined nor stacked with any other Head Protection armor, unless specifically allowed on the item's description. • Does Not Allow Visual Aid Attachments: This equipment is NOT designed to accept any devices with the Visual Aid Attachment Special Rule.

Helmet Special Rules • Improved Chance to Reduce Stun: A Fighter that is equipped with this Head Protection has a probability to reduce an Injury result of Stun to Knock Down of 5+. If you determine that the injured Fighter wearing this protection was Stunned, roll a D6. If successful, treat the Stunned result as Knocked Down instead. • Stackable Armor Improvement: A Fighter that is equipped with this form of Head Protection gets a +1 to his Armor Save. This bonus is stackable with other Armor. For example, a Fighter wearing an armor that provides an Armor Save of 5+, by adding this form of Head Protection he would have an Armor Save of 4+. • Head Protection: This armor provides protection to the Fighter's head and can’t be combined nor stacked with any other Head Protection armor, unless specifically allowed on the item's description. • Allows Visual Aid Attachments: This equipment is designed to accept any one device with the Visual Aid Attachment Special Rule.

Same color represent 'similar' points of comparison. Both of the Armors give the same Stackable Armor Improvement bonus to your Armor Save (+1). So if you have no Armor Save, you now have 6+. If you have Mesh (6+), now you have 5+. Also, both of them are Head Protection, you can can't wear two helmets.

The big one is the Chance to Reduce Stun. The Head Guard is 6+, while the Helmet is 5+. Remember, that being Stunned almost guarantees getting killed in Close Combat; the attack hits automatically, gets +3 To-Wound, you get -3 to Armor Save AND gets +3 to Injury Rolls (you get OOA on a 2+!) So, increasing your chances of just being KD from 16.7% to 33.3% is a BIG jump! Also, if you get attacked and are KD, your Turn is next... you can stand now! Big difference. If you were Stunned... you would become KD (still on the floor!!!)

The difference is on the Visual Aid Attachments. If you plan to add OTHER wargear to the head protection, the Head Guard is not good for you. Now... THIS is the beauty of the Head Guard. Even in LONG Campaigns (by game 12 or 15) your Recruits still don't have many scopes of optics. They are Recruits... so you STILL send them to the front (canon fodder!) and if they die, you replace them with veterans. So... why invest MORE for something you will not fully use?

You want the MOST protection and availability to add more stuff on your Officers... to the point that you will pay premium credits for the best gear. For your Recruits? They would be lucky if they get any armor at all! HA! This cost/availability system allows you to have (poor) armor quickly and upgrade as the 'weapons race' intensify. VERY , eh?

I would NOT give any armor to the HWS and Medic yet. Your MOST valuable Officers (IMHO) are the Sgts! They gain an Advancement after 2 XP... so if they make one kill and survive the 1st game, you have an Advancement!!! The Head Guards are cheap... get them after the 1st game. Don't be such a chicken. HA! Just kidding... it is a personal choice. I like your Squad, but it is NOT my style...

I was actually wondering about the head equipment and mesh armor comparison, rather than what are the differences between headguard and helmet.
The point in favour for buying any headgear before game is that it has rarity 4, while mesh has no rarity... plus these stun reductions. And headgear provides the same armor save as mesh armor, if I get i right...

If this is true, I can exchange on of the mesh armors for 2 head guards... and I have 2 mesh armors on my Sgts, so 4 headgears. You're right that it might be better to put them on Lts instead of HWS and Medic, though.

You are right on the mechanics. During creation, Head-Guard/Helmet is better... but then you will struggle with the limiting factor of how many Rarity rolls you can take (1 per Officer).

I would leave the Officers with Flak... you will EVENTUALLY get it, you may as well save the Rarity roll now. I would drop the Club on one Sgt and exchange both Sgts Mesh for Flaks (have 4 credits to spare). Then have your Captain buy a grenade (max that 50% off!)

I like this new squad, also like the switch to Cadian ;D

Im still not a fan of starting with that much armor, but its personal taste.
I also like Mordheimers suggestions, a 6+ armor save is to really not worth the credit, at least at start up.

I think you should try to find the credit to buy a Reflex Scope for your Captain, At start up its only 11 credit for +1 BS, putting him at BS5.

Then use him (and Lieutants) to snipe enemy charaters with armor saves and enemy flamers, giving you the advantage when combat begins.
The rest af the squad should try to pick the "easy" targets, models with no armor and in the open, to giv better chance to put as many as possible out of action.

-Skavenslayer

skavenslayer wrote:

I think you should try to find the credit to buy a Reflex Scope for your Captain, At start up its only 11 credit for +1 BS, putting him at BS5.

HOLY COW!!! He is right... you have a shooty based Squad... maximize it!

Mordheimer wrote:

skavenslayer wrote:

I think you should try to find the credit to buy a Reflex Scope for your Captain, At start up its only 11 credit for +1 BS, putting him at BS5.

HOLY COW!!! He is right... you have a shooty based Squad... maximize it!

No need to "HOLY COW" me, ofc im right

Personaly I would trade the Lieutants armor for Reflex Scopes also, but you should know my feeling about armor at start up by now.

-Skavenslayer

I went with a bolter and reflex scope on my captain in my Jenkala build. Haven't had a chance to try it, or even model them yet, but it seemed like a deadly combo.

On the modeling note, I eBayed a crap load of bits for my squad. I also tried to buy some time to spend on the minis, but it seems that time is currently out of stock indefinitely.

skavenslayer wrote:

I think you should try to find the credit to buy a Reflex Scope for your Captain, At start up its only 11 credit for +1 BS, putting him at BS5.

That will teach me never to check the wargear section. WHOA!

Arachas wrote:

skavenslayer wrote:

I think you should try to find the credit to buy a Reflex Scope for your Captain, At start up its only 11 credit for +1 BS, putting him at BS5.

That will teach me never to check the wargear section. WHOA!

Yeah, Im surpriced I dont see more starting warbands with that item.

I did post it in your own thread: http://www.deathsquadsgame.com/t2322-3rd-semperian-vanguard
Half-way down 2nd page.

-Skavenslayer

Well, I still like the Hellgun a lot. But I am definitely considering it.

Personaly I prefere the Hellgun over the Bolter, but that is just personal tast.
I dont think the bolter is neither better or worse.

-Skavenslayer